anyone happen to know the wavelength of psi?

[WingedPower]

Posting this in this forum since it doesn't refer to a device I'm building, but just a concept I'm working on.

Currently, there are materials in the works that employ nano tubes to receive energy in the terrahertz range, allowing them to essentially "receive" heat energy, converting it into another energy, like electricity.

The antenna size is in relationship to the wavelength of the energy you want to capture. So, knowing the frequency/wavelength of psi would be a good way towards designing ameans of harvesting and perhaps aplifying psi.

Issues of level of influence on the electromagnetic energy level ignored/assumed, in this case.

Following the antenna concept, it would follow that some sizes and shapes may be more applicable to the integration with psi.

WP.

[New2]

Maybe try checking out the wavelengths of brain waves?? Especially theta & delta.

[NoMad]

That would be a good place to start seeing as to how we know our thoughts can be carried by psi.

[WingedPower]

As far as brainwaves go, that's fairly straightforward... and ultimately unhelpful, since brain activity covers a wide range of frequencies. Though the average beat frequency of the brain at the different levels (alpha, beta, gamma, theta ) have specific frequency ranges. They are all quite low.

However, while that tells us the frequency of what's going on inside the brain, it doesn't tell us the frequency of the energy leaving the body.

I rule out kirlian as a means of determining this(for those that might have been considering that) since the frequency and color banding is strongly influenced by the electrical source and quality of the electrical energy employed.

WP.

[New2]

What are you talking about, quite low? Inside the brain?? I read that people using psychic abilities are using theta & delta brain waves. That would mean a 'low' frequency would be helpful & if you're using psi, then something has to be going on here, though Just inside the brain? I don't know. Unless the research was wrong... And I'm sorry, but I can't remember where I read that right now. It was just something I googled one day. Guess I was thinking that you could duplicate brain wave frequencies or something. Maybe a sound thing like a speaker would do it. Ah. May not get low enough though.... Maybe if it was built special. Sound quality. That type goes low & not just loud. Or maybe just looking at the inside of the thing would be inspiring to think of something else to build.

[MindlessInvalid]

delta state isn't even properly lucid, and neither is theta. So you heard wrong.

[thais]

Didn't I read somewhere that you could manipulate the wavelengths/amplitude? If so, wouldn't it be impossible to say x=psi wavelength? Perhaps there is a range, though.

[WingedPower]

Aiming for a configuration that is attuned to psi energy. Psi energy that is retuned to different frequencies and amplitudes would require different tuning.

WP.

[NoMad]

Hmm, I still have one of those feelings about looking at brainwaves. Kind of a hunch, which mine tend to be correct. I'm thinking that it could help narrow the frequency range down. If my hunch is correct, psi needs to be able to grab the brainwaves, turn them into a psi based signal, but then also convert it back to brainwaves for the recipient to take. I'm sure i'm right as far as all that goes, (the fact that psi must convert brainwaves to energy then back again) but i'm not sure of what that means.

[MindlessInvalid]

are you sure it isn't in fact created by the neurons firing? which would explain patternization and all of that.

[NoMad]

the psi? i'm sure it is, what i mean is that psi can obviously carry brainwaves to another person in a way that allows them to understand them.

[WingedPower]

delta state isn't even properly lucid, and neither is theta. So you heard wrong.


Well, lucidity isn't a concern. :) but those are brain wave/states. Some just aren't of any use to the waking self.

Regarding brainwaves and psi energy or neurons firing, I liken it to the destructiveness of air bubbles.

This dates back to an article I read a couple of decades ago. It was about the corrosive and wear/tear of various submerged propellors on boats, big and small.

For high velocity blades, they talked about the formation and collapse of bubbles in the water due to hypercavitation due to the relative velocity of the blade edge in the water.

What they found was that the formation of the bubbles in the water had more destructive force than the collapse of the bubble.

It goes on to describe fairly mundane concepts of marine allows and blade design to minimize the corrosion and wear...

There is also the concept of wave cancellation and wave magnification, when waves from two sources intersect with one another. With the right pattern repeated, you can get some serious peaks.

Anyways, the point is that I think that there is probably a correlation with neurons firing and that of 3d brain wave propogation through the brain, which results in the generation of psi energy, when those wave forms crest/peak together in the region of high rates of neurons firing.

I was going to use the bubble concept as an analogy to the neurons firing, but realized that a charged capacitor discharging turns out to be more apt.

Anyways, taking into account neural discharge patterns and thought pattern waves intersecting, think dynamic antenna.

WP.

( Was thinking out loud, sorry for lack of continuity. )

[MindlessInvalid]

But the neurons firing may create psi in the state of the neuron that spawned it, and when they come together, they hold the quantum version of a complete thought.

[WingedPower]

For that case, then then the question is: can one quantum contain a complete thought?

In all likelihood, no. If thoughts are the summation of the firing of multiple neurons and the resulting waveform of activity within the brain, then a single quantum of energy, cannot contain a complete thought.

Multiple bundles, perhaps, but not a single quantum of energy. I am using the physics definition of "quantum", which can be considered equivalent to a "photon" of light, which is just a quantum of em energy in the visible band.

WP.

[MindlessInvalid]

oh no, i didn't mean it like that, I mean in in that the particles (groups of particles) each hold the pattern based off of whatever configuration they came out in. So no, one quantum would not hold a complete thought, not by any stretch of the imagination. (you missed the other part of that argument WP, a single quantum doesn't have enough states to hold a complete thought anyways. the thought would be the combined states of all particles in a cloud of particles

[jammer854]

nobody has proven what psi is though i personally think it is a kind of light ray that varies in wavelength and intensity

[New2]

I tend to think we're always in motion, so I'm not too sure what a 'complete thought' is... Since once you've thought it, it's not happening anymore, but you're remembering it then. People just say they're thinking when they're holding on to remembering it as a sort of placemark sometimes if I'm correct. I read an article about how the brain functions. Basically, we're always 'thinking' of the past & there's all kinds of things that go on between past present & future when you look at how the brain works. I hope I copied the article onto my hard drive... I can't remember what they call this thing atm. I feel this is the way I think as well. So it's odd there's supposed to be a picture of the brain functioning in this way, thinking.

[TUV]

you could get a little strip panel of black silicon and try to channel psi through it like flux (near the edge). Black silicon is super receptive to energy, like 500 times more sensitive than normal silicon. You could then measure the time that the psi wave (wave?) is on and off the panel by energy transfer into it? black silicon has made it possible to measure a bunch of other types of energy way more precise than before. Thank those Harvard grad students that stayed at school over this last Christmas break for creating this stuff lol...

~TUV

[Quantum Field Theory]

If psi exists, which I doubt, (don't flame), then it is likely to have a mechanism of action that cannot be explained in terms of macroscopic physics, because gravitation makes no sense as an explanation for pk, which I explained in another post, and Maxwell's equations, which govern electromagnetic phenomenon, do not easily permit the manipulation of macroscopic neutrally charged objects.

Most substances are nearly completely neutrally charged on the large scale, and even if they aren't, they are likely at ground potential. On the atomic scale, manifestations of electromagnetism hold electrons to the nuclei of atoms, hold atoms together in molecules, molecules together in objects, and convey contact forces due to pressure or shear stress. The only way that electromagnetism could reasonably control neutrally charged objects without the expenditure of enormous energies and the presence of superconductors is if it is manifested at the quantum level.

I think that it is unlikely that if telepathy exists, it is sent by ordinary electromagnetic waves. First of all, we are completely surrounded by a huge number of various radio and microwave frequencies all the time, which do not appear to have that profound of an impact on our thought, considering that we still have about the same level of flaws and good points that we have throughout our history. Since brainwaves are in the ultra low frequency range, and power lines transmit at 60 Hz (yes, that means that power lines give off 60 Hz radio waves), it seems that 60 Hz radio waves would have as good a chance as anything at profoundly influencing our thoughts. There are a few problems with this, however. One, we are all constantly surrounded by 60 Hz waves, and they have been prevalent in the air for much longer than the microwaves that cellphones, bluetooth devices, and WiFi cards use, and they don't seem to have had much of an effect. Let me know if my history is wrong, but I know that AC power is as old as the beginning of the last century, I'm just not sure that it was always transmitted at 60 Hz. I also know that some other counties use other frequencies. Maybe that's why we're so dumb in America? (I'm kidding, just in case any ub3r patriots!!1!!one are on this forum) The other reason that I think that there is likely no effect is because of the wavelength of the radio waves that come off of power lines. If you use the formula frequency times wavelength is equal to the speed of the wave (which in this case is the speed of light), then you find that the wavelength of this 60 Hz radiation is about 5,000 km. Just so you know, the radius of the Earth is about 6300 km. There is a phenomenon known as diffraction that is closely related to wavelength. Read the wiki article if you want more information as to why this is limiting. Essentially, the limit to which a ray of light can be focused is largely dependent on the wavelength of said light. Waves in the range of 60 Hz or smaller (which fits the range of brain wave frequencies) have such enormous wavelengths that any degree of focus on areas less than several km is meaningless, let alone focusing directly on specific parts of the brain in specific areas.

The other problem with this, is that, with the exception of the eyes, there are no apparatuses on the body which possess the ability to encode wavelengths of light into specific units of information. Not only this, but add in the fact that people's brains are not all wired identically, (most likely vastly different than a PC and a Mac, and yet consider the software compatibility issues there) and you've got yourself a near-intractable, computationally impossible problem. (i.e. How could your brain figure out which parts of the other person's brain to stimulate electromagnetically if it doesn't already know the precise wiring of every neuron in the other person's brain, and if it were to dedicate resources to memorizing their exact neural patterns, it would have to use one neuron for every neuron, so it would take an entire brain just to know the wiring of someone else's brain.)

Given these things, if pk exists, it is likely either due to electromagnetism manifested at the quantum level, (which is a very difficult problem in and of itself) or the result of some as-of-yet undiscovered fifth force. It is also highly unlikely that telepathy works with electromagnetism, considering that we have no internal devices to collect or process any other waves than those of visible light.

That being said, if psi is due to a manifestation of electromagnetism at the quantum level, then its wavelength would be that of the light comprising it. If it is due to some other fifth force at the quantum level, then the field quanta which transmits it would have some DeBroglie wavelength associated with each possible momentum that it carries, and a wave function corresponding to each eigenstate. Of course, since I'm quite sure that there's no one who knows these properties of psi, I'm pretty sure that no one can tell you what its wavelength(s) are, because, until we even have an idea as to what it is, we can't build any device that can test to find its wavelength(s).

[MindlessInvalid]

there's always the broad spectrum approach, systematically ruling out the wrong answers until we get the right one... that's how we work here anyway. As voiddragon said, it doesn't necessarily have to be a particle. If it IS a particle, it has a wavelength, if not...
then we have to rewrite everything we think we know about it. (I actually side with voiddragon merely on the merits that his/her theory of how psionics works is more compatible with what I know of the different realms of science.