ArchiveRecovery
03-23-2007, 07:10 PM
DjinnStorm
11-14-2005, 10:23 PM
Not sure how to phrase this question but...
With Momentum-Ability, I understand its possible to both sense and affect momentum. This question pertains to the affecting/out-put function of said ability...
So, its possible to affect the path of momentum. However, is it also possible to negate the momentum of something in motion? And, is it possible to, how can I word this... Cause momentum in something?
Basically, to make myself clearer, as well as changing the path of something already in motion; can one stop something in motion, or start something moving from a stationary state, using solely this ability?
Tnanks!
~DS~
[Edited: 21:27, 14/11/05: subject from 'moomentum' to 'momentum'...]
EliteSinkes
11-15-2005, 12:39 AM
isnt that just telekinesis? (if you dont know what telekinesis is then its the psychic ability to cause movement in an object or stopping an object moving)
Winged_Wolf
11-15-2005, 02:52 AM
Djinn--yes you can manipulate momentum--transfer it from one point to another, but I've never heard of anyone using the ability to stop an object in motion completely, nor to move something that is stationary.
DjinnStorm
11-15-2005, 06:27 PM
Ahar, Thank-you; Winged Wolf. Any replies would be welcome.
[I know what Telekinesis is but thanks anyway, Elite :) ]
EliteSinkes
11-15-2005, 11:17 PM
sorry im just crazy :smt119 :smt118
Pavlov's Dog
11-16-2005, 03:56 AM
maybe its just that i have no idea what momentum ability is supposed to be if it isnt telekinesis, but i would like an example. not a yell-at-me-because-you-dont-want-to-do-it example, just a maybe-you-could-use-it-like-this example.
Ramza
11-16-2005, 07:10 AM
According to the psionguild's definition (which may not be applicable on other websites): Momentum ability is the ability to effect the momentum of a moving object, allowing you to change it's speed and/or direction via psychic means. Stationary objects however (supposedly) can't be effected by this ability because they don't have any momentum to influence.
Psycho/telekinesis on the other hand could be used on a stationary object because it seems to generate it's own force.
The rest of the world tends to define psychokinesis as any psychic effect on the physical world around us, so if you went to Veritas or something, momentum ability would be considered to be a different application of the same ability (psychokinesis or PK).
If you want an example, momentum abilty could do something like: pushing a marble (with your hand) straight ahead and them making it change direction mid-roll. While an example of psychokinesis would be pushing the marble without ever touching it.
Winged_Wolf
11-16-2005, 08:43 AM
The reason for the division, of course, is that different people have different abilities, and find different things easier to learn. Since momentum ability DOES use a different energy format from matter ability, and it's involving different nerve clusters, it's truly a seperate ability--someone who can do it may not be able to do matter PK, and vice versa. Identifying what exactly someone is doing, and having them try different things is most helpful. If you can use momentum ability, but NOT matter PK, then you know what it is you're training, and a lot more about what you can and can't do with it...thus enabling you to get the most of out of it.
DjinnStorm
11-16-2005, 05:05 PM
Ah, I understand now... Momentum-Ability isnt exactly what I'm dealing with then.
Was wondering, Winged-Wolf, what you mean in the class-logs where you said about Gravity ability usually being used in conjunction with Momentum ability, rather than Matter ability? [it was said in response to Rainsongs' question about the the 'canoe incident']
~DS~
Winged_Wolf
11-16-2005, 05:55 PM
Not sure...quote it?
DjinnStorm
11-16-2005, 08:57 PM
The text I refered to is below...
IRC class logs > Evening Classes: Class 9 (Matter Ability Practice, Gravity and Magnetism intro):
[Discussing Gravity Ability]
"[20:25] RainTurtle> I wonder, though, if this was involved in the canoe incident a few months ago, because the boat suddenly seemed lighter as I lifted it
[20:26] WingedWolf> It very well may be.
[20:26] WingedWolf> It's not as difficult a physical ability as some of the others, from what I have seen.
[20:27] WingedWolf> More people seem to have success with it, more often.
[20:28] RainTurtle> IS it often combined with pk?
[20:28] WingedWolf> I think we are done for today, since you'll need more equipment to move on.
[20:28] RainTurtle> Thanks for the class, Wolf
[20:28] WingedWolf> I'm not sure if it is often combined with PK, Rain...more often with momentum ability, if anything.
[20:29] WingedWolf> It's possible, of course.
[20:29] WingedWolf> If there are no more questions, I think we are done for today. :)
[20:30] Tetra> Not I
[20:30] RainTurtle> No more here, I think "
Hope that clarifies my question,
~DS~
[c]
11-17-2005, 12:25 AM
Not sure how to phrase this question but...
With Momentum-Ability, I understand its possible to both sense and affect momentum. This question pertains to the affecting/out-put function of said ability...
So, its possible to affect the path of momentum. However, is it also possible to negate the momentum of something in motion? And, is it possible to, how can I word this... Cause momentum in something?
Basically, to make myself clearer, as well as changing the path of something already in motion; can one stop something in motion, or start something moving from a stationary state, using solely this ability?
Tnanks!
~DS~
[Edited: 21:27, 14/11/05: subject from 'moomentum' to 'momentum'...]
Why don't people just say it?..
"Can i stop bullets with psi?"
DjinnStorm
11-17-2005, 02:02 AM
Well, perhaps "people" [ahem] talking about _something in motion_ are aware that bullets and other high-velocity projectiles aren't the _Only_ things which can be 'something in motion', and thus had less-bullet-esque 'somethings' in mind. :)
That _might_ give you some indication as to why "people" aren't asking it, here anyway.
~DS~
{/retract claws}
[c]
11-17-2005, 05:08 AM
lol, my last post was a joke btw
DjinnStorm
11-17-2005, 10:30 AM
:P Fairy 'nough!
Winged_Wolf
11-17-2005, 02:13 PM
Yes, rather than completely nullifying gravity or momentum, it's a bit easier to make something "lighter", and easier to move around. I've heard more than one report of folks putting these abilities to deliberate use at work in order to move something they really ought not to be able to lug around alone (such as shoving heavy pallets around without a pallet-jack).
XPWarrior3
11-17-2005, 03:03 PM
Sounds useful.
Pavlov's Dog
11-18-2005, 03:49 AM
I have actually considered it, but i dont want to go around asking people if i can stop some bullets with psi or any other energy. mostly my reasoning is that i'm not fully comfortable with my abilities yet. I dont want to ask someone to shoot a bullet at me so I can stop it with psi, and end up stopping it with my gut or some other body part. And another reason why nobody is asking might be because they feel its out of their league. the guild at this point is a loosely bound group of individuals who just so happen to be curious about energy or an unnatural ability they've had for a while and are trying to figure it out. that just says 'ameteurs' [spelling?] to me. if i were super inexperienced at something i knew nothing about [i probably wouldnt do it at all, but supposing i did] i wouldnt just jump right on in and pretend to be experienced until i realized that im making a fool of myself, id hang around for a while and acclimate myself to the environment, then start out with basic questions and gradually try to learn.
XPWarrior3
11-18-2005, 03:22 PM
I think I've actually used that ability in physical fighting. Everytime I get into a fight in school I always feel lighter. Much lighter than I would usually feel and the people I fight always say that I hit hard.
Pavlov: That's cool. I was actually that way myself until I felt comfortable with myself and my abilities. I made a small name for myself in my school as "the psychic". :D Then everyone forgot about me over the summer.
WhiteRaven
11-25-2005, 04:26 AM
"I think I've actually used that ability in physical fighting. Everytime I get into a fight in school I always feel lighter. Much lighter than I would usually feel and the people I fight always say that I hit hard. "
that, sir, would be caused by adrenaline, a chemical which deadens the ability to feel pain, and increases the strength of muscles thus making stuff seem less heavy, and increasing natural speed because of the increased strength of the leg muskools.
Winged_Wolf
11-25-2005, 07:28 AM
Yep, have to agree with WhiteRaven.
XPWarrior3
11-27-2005, 04:12 AM
I stand corrected.
EDIT: I must have a lot of adrenaline then.
Snow_Jule
12-26-2005, 12:27 AM
Theorhetically, wouldn't someone be able to create a construct to alter the momentum of a moving object, such as a bullett? This way you could stand to the side. But then, I guess that would be a different ability altogether wouldn't it?
Winged_Wolf
12-26-2005, 02:49 AM
Well, there's the problem of where you're going to transfer all that force....a bullet has TREMENDOUS momentum. That would require an enormous amount of skill and power. I don't think it's really reasonable.
Snow_Jule
12-26-2005, 06:17 AM
why not try to reflect it back to the sender? This is a principle of Aikido which could be put to use here. Aikido is a martial art all about redirecting the flow of the attacking energy. If a person attacks you, even with tremendous physical force, you use their own attacking energy to move them around. It's about spiraling, circular motions which enter into the attack, and redirect the energy in such a way that you gain control of this attacking energy and are able to move it through subtle movements and no effort at all. The more force they attack you with, the harder they fall. I'm being imaginative here, but couldn't you use this idea of movement alteration to just redirect the direction of movement?. I've seen people basically throw themselves because they attack with force and momentum and when their energy is directed in a certain way it works against them. It's quite beautiful. But this is different than actually stopping the bullett in mid air Matrix stylie. In order to do that, you would have to be constantly and progressively slowing down the momentum of the object as soon as it left the cartridge.
Well, there's the problem of where you're going to transfer all that force....
Couldn't you transfer it to the air mollucules preceeding the bullet?
How much inertia would a bullet have? Could you possibly affect the inertia of air mollecules to exceed that of the bullet?
There have been inventors known to create electromagnetic force feild vests that reflect bullets, but once again, it reguires lots of energy and the EMFs are extremely harmful as well. The invention was never practical nor safe so it never made it to production.
Ramza
12-26-2005, 07:28 AM
Couldn't you transfer it to the air mollucules preceeding the bullet?
How much inertia would a bullet have? Could you possibly affect the inertia of air mollecules to exceed that of the bullet?
You could probably do any of those things in theory . The issue with those is the shear massive amount of momentum that a bullet possesses, and the fact that it flies so fast that it would surely hit you before you could really influence it. The idea of taking the bullets own momentum and then manipulating it to influence the bullet is truly intriguing, but I doubt that any psion has the skill required to affect such a massive quantity.
As far as Aikido goes, the principals of re-directing energy in martial arts are applicable only because of the nature of the momentum. There is significant difference between the mechanics of a punch and those of a bullet, but I'm sure you already knew this.
lancefighter
01-26-2006, 12:10 AM
about stpping bullets, woldnt it be easyer to redirect bullets? (and that would also be on topic, as this is about redirection of force right?)
it would reqire way less energy, and it would by easyer(have said that yet?)
Ramza
01-26-2006, 10:47 PM
Re-directing a bullet sounds only slightly more plausible. Making the bullet move a few degrees to the left could make it miss you (just barely), but you still run into the same issues as before. Bullets travel so fast that I doubt that you have enough time to even focus on it, let alone project psi at it. Plus even if the effect is relatively small (a change in path by a couple degrees) the amount of momentum a bullet has is still massive, and quite frankly most psions consider themselves lucky if they can redirect a slow moving marble.
11-14-2005, 10:23 PM
Not sure how to phrase this question but...
With Momentum-Ability, I understand its possible to both sense and affect momentum. This question pertains to the affecting/out-put function of said ability...
So, its possible to affect the path of momentum. However, is it also possible to negate the momentum of something in motion? And, is it possible to, how can I word this... Cause momentum in something?
Basically, to make myself clearer, as well as changing the path of something already in motion; can one stop something in motion, or start something moving from a stationary state, using solely this ability?
Tnanks!
~DS~
[Edited: 21:27, 14/11/05: subject from 'moomentum' to 'momentum'...]
EliteSinkes
11-15-2005, 12:39 AM
isnt that just telekinesis? (if you dont know what telekinesis is then its the psychic ability to cause movement in an object or stopping an object moving)
Winged_Wolf
11-15-2005, 02:52 AM
Djinn--yes you can manipulate momentum--transfer it from one point to another, but I've never heard of anyone using the ability to stop an object in motion completely, nor to move something that is stationary.
DjinnStorm
11-15-2005, 06:27 PM
Ahar, Thank-you; Winged Wolf. Any replies would be welcome.
[I know what Telekinesis is but thanks anyway, Elite :) ]
EliteSinkes
11-15-2005, 11:17 PM
sorry im just crazy :smt119 :smt118
Pavlov's Dog
11-16-2005, 03:56 AM
maybe its just that i have no idea what momentum ability is supposed to be if it isnt telekinesis, but i would like an example. not a yell-at-me-because-you-dont-want-to-do-it example, just a maybe-you-could-use-it-like-this example.
Ramza
11-16-2005, 07:10 AM
According to the psionguild's definition (which may not be applicable on other websites): Momentum ability is the ability to effect the momentum of a moving object, allowing you to change it's speed and/or direction via psychic means. Stationary objects however (supposedly) can't be effected by this ability because they don't have any momentum to influence.
Psycho/telekinesis on the other hand could be used on a stationary object because it seems to generate it's own force.
The rest of the world tends to define psychokinesis as any psychic effect on the physical world around us, so if you went to Veritas or something, momentum ability would be considered to be a different application of the same ability (psychokinesis or PK).
If you want an example, momentum abilty could do something like: pushing a marble (with your hand) straight ahead and them making it change direction mid-roll. While an example of psychokinesis would be pushing the marble without ever touching it.
Winged_Wolf
11-16-2005, 08:43 AM
The reason for the division, of course, is that different people have different abilities, and find different things easier to learn. Since momentum ability DOES use a different energy format from matter ability, and it's involving different nerve clusters, it's truly a seperate ability--someone who can do it may not be able to do matter PK, and vice versa. Identifying what exactly someone is doing, and having them try different things is most helpful. If you can use momentum ability, but NOT matter PK, then you know what it is you're training, and a lot more about what you can and can't do with it...thus enabling you to get the most of out of it.
DjinnStorm
11-16-2005, 05:05 PM
Ah, I understand now... Momentum-Ability isnt exactly what I'm dealing with then.
Was wondering, Winged-Wolf, what you mean in the class-logs where you said about Gravity ability usually being used in conjunction with Momentum ability, rather than Matter ability? [it was said in response to Rainsongs' question about the the 'canoe incident']
~DS~
Winged_Wolf
11-16-2005, 05:55 PM
Not sure...quote it?
DjinnStorm
11-16-2005, 08:57 PM
The text I refered to is below...
IRC class logs > Evening Classes: Class 9 (Matter Ability Practice, Gravity and Magnetism intro):
[Discussing Gravity Ability]
"[20:25] RainTurtle> I wonder, though, if this was involved in the canoe incident a few months ago, because the boat suddenly seemed lighter as I lifted it
[20:26] WingedWolf> It very well may be.
[20:26] WingedWolf> It's not as difficult a physical ability as some of the others, from what I have seen.
[20:27] WingedWolf> More people seem to have success with it, more often.
[20:28] RainTurtle> IS it often combined with pk?
[20:28] WingedWolf> I think we are done for today, since you'll need more equipment to move on.
[20:28] RainTurtle> Thanks for the class, Wolf
[20:28] WingedWolf> I'm not sure if it is often combined with PK, Rain...more often with momentum ability, if anything.
[20:29] WingedWolf> It's possible, of course.
[20:29] WingedWolf> If there are no more questions, I think we are done for today. :)
[20:30] Tetra> Not I
[20:30] RainTurtle> No more here, I think "
Hope that clarifies my question,
~DS~
[c]
11-17-2005, 12:25 AM
Not sure how to phrase this question but...
With Momentum-Ability, I understand its possible to both sense and affect momentum. This question pertains to the affecting/out-put function of said ability...
So, its possible to affect the path of momentum. However, is it also possible to negate the momentum of something in motion? And, is it possible to, how can I word this... Cause momentum in something?
Basically, to make myself clearer, as well as changing the path of something already in motion; can one stop something in motion, or start something moving from a stationary state, using solely this ability?
Tnanks!
~DS~
[Edited: 21:27, 14/11/05: subject from 'moomentum' to 'momentum'...]
Why don't people just say it?..
"Can i stop bullets with psi?"
DjinnStorm
11-17-2005, 02:02 AM
Well, perhaps "people" [ahem] talking about _something in motion_ are aware that bullets and other high-velocity projectiles aren't the _Only_ things which can be 'something in motion', and thus had less-bullet-esque 'somethings' in mind. :)
That _might_ give you some indication as to why "people" aren't asking it, here anyway.
~DS~
{/retract claws}
[c]
11-17-2005, 05:08 AM
lol, my last post was a joke btw
DjinnStorm
11-17-2005, 10:30 AM
:P Fairy 'nough!
Winged_Wolf
11-17-2005, 02:13 PM
Yes, rather than completely nullifying gravity or momentum, it's a bit easier to make something "lighter", and easier to move around. I've heard more than one report of folks putting these abilities to deliberate use at work in order to move something they really ought not to be able to lug around alone (such as shoving heavy pallets around without a pallet-jack).
XPWarrior3
11-17-2005, 03:03 PM
Sounds useful.
Pavlov's Dog
11-18-2005, 03:49 AM
I have actually considered it, but i dont want to go around asking people if i can stop some bullets with psi or any other energy. mostly my reasoning is that i'm not fully comfortable with my abilities yet. I dont want to ask someone to shoot a bullet at me so I can stop it with psi, and end up stopping it with my gut or some other body part. And another reason why nobody is asking might be because they feel its out of their league. the guild at this point is a loosely bound group of individuals who just so happen to be curious about energy or an unnatural ability they've had for a while and are trying to figure it out. that just says 'ameteurs' [spelling?] to me. if i were super inexperienced at something i knew nothing about [i probably wouldnt do it at all, but supposing i did] i wouldnt just jump right on in and pretend to be experienced until i realized that im making a fool of myself, id hang around for a while and acclimate myself to the environment, then start out with basic questions and gradually try to learn.
XPWarrior3
11-18-2005, 03:22 PM
I think I've actually used that ability in physical fighting. Everytime I get into a fight in school I always feel lighter. Much lighter than I would usually feel and the people I fight always say that I hit hard.
Pavlov: That's cool. I was actually that way myself until I felt comfortable with myself and my abilities. I made a small name for myself in my school as "the psychic". :D Then everyone forgot about me over the summer.
WhiteRaven
11-25-2005, 04:26 AM
"I think I've actually used that ability in physical fighting. Everytime I get into a fight in school I always feel lighter. Much lighter than I would usually feel and the people I fight always say that I hit hard. "
that, sir, would be caused by adrenaline, a chemical which deadens the ability to feel pain, and increases the strength of muscles thus making stuff seem less heavy, and increasing natural speed because of the increased strength of the leg muskools.
Winged_Wolf
11-25-2005, 07:28 AM
Yep, have to agree with WhiteRaven.
XPWarrior3
11-27-2005, 04:12 AM
I stand corrected.
EDIT: I must have a lot of adrenaline then.
Snow_Jule
12-26-2005, 12:27 AM
Theorhetically, wouldn't someone be able to create a construct to alter the momentum of a moving object, such as a bullett? This way you could stand to the side. But then, I guess that would be a different ability altogether wouldn't it?
Winged_Wolf
12-26-2005, 02:49 AM
Well, there's the problem of where you're going to transfer all that force....a bullet has TREMENDOUS momentum. That would require an enormous amount of skill and power. I don't think it's really reasonable.
Snow_Jule
12-26-2005, 06:17 AM
why not try to reflect it back to the sender? This is a principle of Aikido which could be put to use here. Aikido is a martial art all about redirecting the flow of the attacking energy. If a person attacks you, even with tremendous physical force, you use their own attacking energy to move them around. It's about spiraling, circular motions which enter into the attack, and redirect the energy in such a way that you gain control of this attacking energy and are able to move it through subtle movements and no effort at all. The more force they attack you with, the harder they fall. I'm being imaginative here, but couldn't you use this idea of movement alteration to just redirect the direction of movement?. I've seen people basically throw themselves because they attack with force and momentum and when their energy is directed in a certain way it works against them. It's quite beautiful. But this is different than actually stopping the bullett in mid air Matrix stylie. In order to do that, you would have to be constantly and progressively slowing down the momentum of the object as soon as it left the cartridge.
Well, there's the problem of where you're going to transfer all that force....
Couldn't you transfer it to the air mollucules preceeding the bullet?
How much inertia would a bullet have? Could you possibly affect the inertia of air mollecules to exceed that of the bullet?
There have been inventors known to create electromagnetic force feild vests that reflect bullets, but once again, it reguires lots of energy and the EMFs are extremely harmful as well. The invention was never practical nor safe so it never made it to production.
Ramza
12-26-2005, 07:28 AM
Couldn't you transfer it to the air mollucules preceeding the bullet?
How much inertia would a bullet have? Could you possibly affect the inertia of air mollecules to exceed that of the bullet?
You could probably do any of those things in theory . The issue with those is the shear massive amount of momentum that a bullet possesses, and the fact that it flies so fast that it would surely hit you before you could really influence it. The idea of taking the bullets own momentum and then manipulating it to influence the bullet is truly intriguing, but I doubt that any psion has the skill required to affect such a massive quantity.
As far as Aikido goes, the principals of re-directing energy in martial arts are applicable only because of the nature of the momentum. There is significant difference between the mechanics of a punch and those of a bullet, but I'm sure you already knew this.
lancefighter
01-26-2006, 12:10 AM
about stpping bullets, woldnt it be easyer to redirect bullets? (and that would also be on topic, as this is about redirection of force right?)
it would reqire way less energy, and it would by easyer(have said that yet?)
Ramza
01-26-2006, 10:47 PM
Re-directing a bullet sounds only slightly more plausible. Making the bullet move a few degrees to the left could make it miss you (just barely), but you still run into the same issues as before. Bullets travel so fast that I doubt that you have enough time to even focus on it, let alone project psi at it. Plus even if the effect is relatively small (a change in path by a couple degrees) the amount of momentum a bullet has is still massive, and quite frankly most psions consider themselves lucky if they can redirect a slow moving marble.