Winged_Wolf
03-23-2007, 03:03 PM
Snow_Jule
01-16-2006, 09:01 AM
Just saw a show about David Blaine, if youve heard of him, and his "magic" abilities. Things like card tricks and Psychokinesis. Things that Psionics explains more scientifically. Just wondering if this guy David Blaine is a legit Psion, and asking myself that question, after seeing some of the things he did with micro and macro PK, telepathy and other stunts, I dont doubt his abilities at all. I mean, there is a possibility that some of the things were fake or the video tampered with, but he turned a homeless guys 3/4 full cup of coffee into a brimming cup of change, like, money change... It didn't change instantly either, the water started to drain and the change surfaced in the coffee as it was draining, then the change started to overflow. It looked quite real.
He also includes a introductory statement at the beginning of the production:
For those who beleive, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not, none will suffice.
This makes sense, but feel free to prove it wrong if you can.
Winged_Wolf
01-16-2006, 09:26 AM
No, he's a magician.
Snow_Jule
01-16-2006, 05:42 PM
How would some of the things he does be explained then? And what exactly is the difference between a true Magician and someone who uses Psionic abilities out on the street to do tricks?
Elliptic
01-16-2006, 05:43 PM
More specifically, he's a stage magician, actor, and escape artist, kind of on the order of Harry Houdini.
That's not to say he doesn't have incredible mental fortitude. He has performed some tricks that most people woujld be hard pressed to perrform, but he's not a psion.
Winged_Wolf
01-16-2006, 11:57 PM
Nor is he using any sort of occult ability. It's slight of hand, and staged trickery.
Snow_Jule
01-17-2006, 07:49 AM
Have you seen what he does? Staged trickery maybe sometimes, but levitating and psychokinesis is hard to perform. If youve seen any, it would be hard to explain it through "staged trickery" or "slight of hand". I personally havn't seen him, but just seeing some of the things he does leads me to beleive he has psionic abilities. But he chooses to use them for performance, right? Is anyone else able to do the things he seems to be able to do? I mean, seriously, do you think the entire act is masterfully engineered down to the digital and acting perfection? When I see the people react to what he does, which is right in front of him and the camera, it's hard to explain as staged trickery. You can tell when a person is acting. Are the things he does real though? Is he actually doing magick, or channeling energy, or using psi or whatever you want to call this ability? I know he goes up there on stage and does his act, and probably on the street as well. Maybe even so down in the Amazon where the natives can hardly have a written language or in Haiti, where black magic is everywhere? Even if he is an actor, stage magician, escape artist and really good at it, the things he does are unexplicable if you use the concepts that are involved with real stage trickery.
I just want to know if he is actually performing those feats or is he cheating somehow? Maybe I am misunderstanding the definition of Psion and psionic ability.
Winged_Wolf
01-17-2006, 09:43 AM
Why is it...when someone says..."I'm fooling you"...there are still some people who just can't believe it?
Snow_Jule
01-18-2006, 07:41 AM
unless you give me some sort of explanation, then your just as skeptical and ignorant as anyone else who DOESN'T understand what they see. Do you know for sure, or are you making judgements based upon personal beleifs? Just explain your position before you stick your big toe out to make someone else look like a fool.
Winged_Wolf
01-18-2006, 08:55 AM
He is a MAGICIAN!!! The entire point, unless you're Penn and Teller, is create illusions that people have a hard time explaining. But they do not tell you that they're not illusions, not these days. David Blaine is not a psion, he is an illusionist...he performs tricks that LOOK like psi, or impossible feats. He makes a living fooling people.
I'm not a magician, and I"m not a member of the magician's guild. If I were, I would be oathbound not to tell you how he does it!
I've never studied stage magic in depth. But insisting that someone who TELLS you they're performing a trick must be using psi or magic because YOU can't explain it is just plain foolish.
Elliptic
01-18-2006, 09:04 AM
I am not a magician, nor am I a member of any guild, nor am I bound by any oaths. His levitation trick is simply accomplished by canting his body away from yours and rocking forward on the ball of his foot. This creates heel movement that lifts his body upwards, while his idle foot obscures your view so you cannot see he is standing on one foot. Google "David Blaine Levitation" for more on this.
His other stage tricks are similar, and quite clever.
Vernand
01-18-2006, 01:38 PM
Make up your own mind. Don't let anybody tell you what to think.
Honestly, if you think David Blaine is on the level with what he does... by all means, believe it.
If you think he's merely a magician and performs his stunts and tricks by sleight of hand and illusion... by all means believe that as well.
But people will always have conflicting views.
Personally, I think the man's a fraud when it comes to the abilities he boasts of. I don't really have any explanation for my stance, as I've never really bothered to watch the shows or read up on him... But if he had talents like that, what is he doing wasting them on television shows? And why isn't he attempting to share the gift, instead of flaunting it?
But, by all means... Make up your own mind about him. Just don't be disappointed when either truth surfaces.
violetann
01-24-2006, 11:55 PM
he uses staged trickery, illusions. he never trying to say he dose it he just enjoys using very elabrote illusions to make things appear to happen. like things to draw your attention away.
*you should watch the masked magican or what ever it was called a ex-magican told people on tv how the illusions work... they even showed how they can make whole elephants dissapear... but illusionism from magicans have been around for a very long time. like at least the medevil period may be longer i dunno. they have a saying a magican never gives away major tricks since they pass them to other ones in something called the magic circle. so they don't have to invent new tricks every week.*
where as psionics is COMPLETLY diffrent. it might appear to someone that it isn't but it is... it's hard to explain but like psions do. magicans/illusionists use illusions/tricks to make apear like something happened.
if he could make a dudes coffee turn to money do you think he would need to make a tv show? no...
Snow_Jule
01-25-2006, 07:43 AM
Yes, I know he is a magician because that is what he does, he does tricks or slight of hand stuff or whatever, and he makes money off of it. Its his business to perform. However, I have only seen one of his shows, and I havn't seen him perform in person. Has anyone else even seen a show of his, or seen him perform tricks real time? From the video I saw, the things he was doing weren't just magic tricks or slight of hand nonsense. Also, that levitation trick, I have heard of before, and something like that wouldn't get you off the ground over six inches. In the video I saw, it appeared that he lifted off the ground at least three feet, which by this cantering, one foot method, he would not be able to do. Of course, it could have been some video trick, who really knows. Another example is his telepathic communication skills, which are quite difficult to explain as "magic tricks". On top of this, if every person he interacted with was being bribed or paid or asked to act a certain way in response to his act, then he would be exposed as a fraud in miliseconds. Either that or he is paying them all a lot of money to keep his "secrets". Both of which are highly unlikely, even more so than the legitimacy of his "acts".
Even if the man is a magician, or illusionist, the things he does aren't unheard of, right? Supposing people involved in this forum actually do have talent that lives up to the definition of what a psion is and can do, why is it that you are so quick to debunk some of the things that he does?
Winged_Wolf
01-25-2006, 08:22 PM
One of the recommendations given by Lloyd Auerbach on what to do if you wish to become a professional parapsychologist included joining the Magician's Guild. Being able to tell a trick from the real thing is an important skill for those studying psionics. Magicians can and do resort to special effects to create illusions on film. In person, misdirection is a key factor in producing illusions.
DjinnStorm
01-27-2006, 04:45 AM
I would of thought the fact that he occassionally calls himself a 'street-magician' kind of blows the whole psionic thing...
Excuse the vague language / explanation... I'm just going on what I've seen:
One of the Special effects WW speaks of, I've seen done somewhere in the Media- Pay special attention to the fact that, you never actually see blaine levitating in full 6 inches AND the observers reactions in the same scene. It's always him alone, with observers nowhere to be seen.
Occasionally, there will be a shot of him with the observers around in the same screen... BUT you'll never see his feet in those ones.
~ Also, sometimes they can get really clever, and show you Blaine in fullscreen, with an 'observer's elbow or something similarly minimal in the scene - which is really an assistant in a similar clothing / hair colour etc... Genius. "Isn't all this a bit far fetched?" - No.
As for the apparent psychokinetic levitation he does... My father has a friend who can do the similar with coins, match-books/boxes and assorted small objects. 'How?' - I don't know, he never tells. *growls*
As for the other 'amazing illusions' - I really couldn't hazard a proper guess... But just because you can explain something one way, doesn't mean its going to be that way...
~DJ~
violetann
01-27-2006, 04:13 PM
levitation trick....
it's one of the oldest ones in the book. the old levitating lady but he levitates himself instead.
here has some comments on how it is possible.
http://www.eeggs.com/items/21366.html
telepathic communication skills are easy to fake they often give someone the image of there is a choice
when realy there is only one thing thay can think of.
sometimes they use the switch-aroo where people are asked to write on a peice of paper something then fold it up.
on the tv you don't see this happen but they often aske did they write it in captials.
if yes they tell them to give them it then write it again. they apear to rip it up.
but they only rip the corners allowing them to read it.
another way is talking the pad back off them after and using a pencil lead hiden under the nail to rub over the page and get a indent of what was writen before.
as for the magic circle they all keep each others secrities. it's in there best intresst after all.
psi is almost impossible to truly belive untill it happens to yourself and you begin to know, see, feel things you cannot explain.
also don't forget most goverments denine the existence of psi... even though england,america and russha all spent a lot of money researching and working on it..
the international media isn't equiped to understand it yet since there reader mostly arn't.
tyciol
07-15-2006, 10:24 PM
One sticker point I guess is that guys like Blaine or Angel do tricks that are more impressive and look just as psychic as many self-proclaimed psychics, so they start to wonder.
01-16-2006, 09:01 AM
Just saw a show about David Blaine, if youve heard of him, and his "magic" abilities. Things like card tricks and Psychokinesis. Things that Psionics explains more scientifically. Just wondering if this guy David Blaine is a legit Psion, and asking myself that question, after seeing some of the things he did with micro and macro PK, telepathy and other stunts, I dont doubt his abilities at all. I mean, there is a possibility that some of the things were fake or the video tampered with, but he turned a homeless guys 3/4 full cup of coffee into a brimming cup of change, like, money change... It didn't change instantly either, the water started to drain and the change surfaced in the coffee as it was draining, then the change started to overflow. It looked quite real.
He also includes a introductory statement at the beginning of the production:
For those who beleive, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not, none will suffice.
This makes sense, but feel free to prove it wrong if you can.
Winged_Wolf
01-16-2006, 09:26 AM
No, he's a magician.
Snow_Jule
01-16-2006, 05:42 PM
How would some of the things he does be explained then? And what exactly is the difference between a true Magician and someone who uses Psionic abilities out on the street to do tricks?
Elliptic
01-16-2006, 05:43 PM
More specifically, he's a stage magician, actor, and escape artist, kind of on the order of Harry Houdini.
That's not to say he doesn't have incredible mental fortitude. He has performed some tricks that most people woujld be hard pressed to perrform, but he's not a psion.
Winged_Wolf
01-16-2006, 11:57 PM
Nor is he using any sort of occult ability. It's slight of hand, and staged trickery.
Snow_Jule
01-17-2006, 07:49 AM
Have you seen what he does? Staged trickery maybe sometimes, but levitating and psychokinesis is hard to perform. If youve seen any, it would be hard to explain it through "staged trickery" or "slight of hand". I personally havn't seen him, but just seeing some of the things he does leads me to beleive he has psionic abilities. But he chooses to use them for performance, right? Is anyone else able to do the things he seems to be able to do? I mean, seriously, do you think the entire act is masterfully engineered down to the digital and acting perfection? When I see the people react to what he does, which is right in front of him and the camera, it's hard to explain as staged trickery. You can tell when a person is acting. Are the things he does real though? Is he actually doing magick, or channeling energy, or using psi or whatever you want to call this ability? I know he goes up there on stage and does his act, and probably on the street as well. Maybe even so down in the Amazon where the natives can hardly have a written language or in Haiti, where black magic is everywhere? Even if he is an actor, stage magician, escape artist and really good at it, the things he does are unexplicable if you use the concepts that are involved with real stage trickery.
I just want to know if he is actually performing those feats or is he cheating somehow? Maybe I am misunderstanding the definition of Psion and psionic ability.
Winged_Wolf
01-17-2006, 09:43 AM
Why is it...when someone says..."I'm fooling you"...there are still some people who just can't believe it?
Snow_Jule
01-18-2006, 07:41 AM
unless you give me some sort of explanation, then your just as skeptical and ignorant as anyone else who DOESN'T understand what they see. Do you know for sure, or are you making judgements based upon personal beleifs? Just explain your position before you stick your big toe out to make someone else look like a fool.
Winged_Wolf
01-18-2006, 08:55 AM
He is a MAGICIAN!!! The entire point, unless you're Penn and Teller, is create illusions that people have a hard time explaining. But they do not tell you that they're not illusions, not these days. David Blaine is not a psion, he is an illusionist...he performs tricks that LOOK like psi, or impossible feats. He makes a living fooling people.
I'm not a magician, and I"m not a member of the magician's guild. If I were, I would be oathbound not to tell you how he does it!
I've never studied stage magic in depth. But insisting that someone who TELLS you they're performing a trick must be using psi or magic because YOU can't explain it is just plain foolish.
Elliptic
01-18-2006, 09:04 AM
I am not a magician, nor am I a member of any guild, nor am I bound by any oaths. His levitation trick is simply accomplished by canting his body away from yours and rocking forward on the ball of his foot. This creates heel movement that lifts his body upwards, while his idle foot obscures your view so you cannot see he is standing on one foot. Google "David Blaine Levitation" for more on this.
His other stage tricks are similar, and quite clever.
Vernand
01-18-2006, 01:38 PM
Make up your own mind. Don't let anybody tell you what to think.
Honestly, if you think David Blaine is on the level with what he does... by all means, believe it.
If you think he's merely a magician and performs his stunts and tricks by sleight of hand and illusion... by all means believe that as well.
But people will always have conflicting views.
Personally, I think the man's a fraud when it comes to the abilities he boasts of. I don't really have any explanation for my stance, as I've never really bothered to watch the shows or read up on him... But if he had talents like that, what is he doing wasting them on television shows? And why isn't he attempting to share the gift, instead of flaunting it?
But, by all means... Make up your own mind about him. Just don't be disappointed when either truth surfaces.
violetann
01-24-2006, 11:55 PM
he uses staged trickery, illusions. he never trying to say he dose it he just enjoys using very elabrote illusions to make things appear to happen. like things to draw your attention away.
*you should watch the masked magican or what ever it was called a ex-magican told people on tv how the illusions work... they even showed how they can make whole elephants dissapear... but illusionism from magicans have been around for a very long time. like at least the medevil period may be longer i dunno. they have a saying a magican never gives away major tricks since they pass them to other ones in something called the magic circle. so they don't have to invent new tricks every week.*
where as psionics is COMPLETLY diffrent. it might appear to someone that it isn't but it is... it's hard to explain but like psions do. magicans/illusionists use illusions/tricks to make apear like something happened.
if he could make a dudes coffee turn to money do you think he would need to make a tv show? no...
Snow_Jule
01-25-2006, 07:43 AM
Yes, I know he is a magician because that is what he does, he does tricks or slight of hand stuff or whatever, and he makes money off of it. Its his business to perform. However, I have only seen one of his shows, and I havn't seen him perform in person. Has anyone else even seen a show of his, or seen him perform tricks real time? From the video I saw, the things he was doing weren't just magic tricks or slight of hand nonsense. Also, that levitation trick, I have heard of before, and something like that wouldn't get you off the ground over six inches. In the video I saw, it appeared that he lifted off the ground at least three feet, which by this cantering, one foot method, he would not be able to do. Of course, it could have been some video trick, who really knows. Another example is his telepathic communication skills, which are quite difficult to explain as "magic tricks". On top of this, if every person he interacted with was being bribed or paid or asked to act a certain way in response to his act, then he would be exposed as a fraud in miliseconds. Either that or he is paying them all a lot of money to keep his "secrets". Both of which are highly unlikely, even more so than the legitimacy of his "acts".
Even if the man is a magician, or illusionist, the things he does aren't unheard of, right? Supposing people involved in this forum actually do have talent that lives up to the definition of what a psion is and can do, why is it that you are so quick to debunk some of the things that he does?
Winged_Wolf
01-25-2006, 08:22 PM
One of the recommendations given by Lloyd Auerbach on what to do if you wish to become a professional parapsychologist included joining the Magician's Guild. Being able to tell a trick from the real thing is an important skill for those studying psionics. Magicians can and do resort to special effects to create illusions on film. In person, misdirection is a key factor in producing illusions.
DjinnStorm
01-27-2006, 04:45 AM
I would of thought the fact that he occassionally calls himself a 'street-magician' kind of blows the whole psionic thing...
Excuse the vague language / explanation... I'm just going on what I've seen:
One of the Special effects WW speaks of, I've seen done somewhere in the Media- Pay special attention to the fact that, you never actually see blaine levitating in full 6 inches AND the observers reactions in the same scene. It's always him alone, with observers nowhere to be seen.
Occasionally, there will be a shot of him with the observers around in the same screen... BUT you'll never see his feet in those ones.
~ Also, sometimes they can get really clever, and show you Blaine in fullscreen, with an 'observer's elbow or something similarly minimal in the scene - which is really an assistant in a similar clothing / hair colour etc... Genius. "Isn't all this a bit far fetched?" - No.
As for the apparent psychokinetic levitation he does... My father has a friend who can do the similar with coins, match-books/boxes and assorted small objects. 'How?' - I don't know, he never tells. *growls*
As for the other 'amazing illusions' - I really couldn't hazard a proper guess... But just because you can explain something one way, doesn't mean its going to be that way...
~DJ~
violetann
01-27-2006, 04:13 PM
levitation trick....
it's one of the oldest ones in the book. the old levitating lady but he levitates himself instead.
here has some comments on how it is possible.
http://www.eeggs.com/items/21366.html
telepathic communication skills are easy to fake they often give someone the image of there is a choice
when realy there is only one thing thay can think of.
sometimes they use the switch-aroo where people are asked to write on a peice of paper something then fold it up.
on the tv you don't see this happen but they often aske did they write it in captials.
if yes they tell them to give them it then write it again. they apear to rip it up.
but they only rip the corners allowing them to read it.
another way is talking the pad back off them after and using a pencil lead hiden under the nail to rub over the page and get a indent of what was writen before.
as for the magic circle they all keep each others secrities. it's in there best intresst after all.
psi is almost impossible to truly belive untill it happens to yourself and you begin to know, see, feel things you cannot explain.
also don't forget most goverments denine the existence of psi... even though england,america and russha all spent a lot of money researching and working on it..
the international media isn't equiped to understand it yet since there reader mostly arn't.
tyciol
07-15-2006, 10:24 PM
One sticker point I guess is that guys like Blaine or Angel do tricks that are more impressive and look just as psychic as many self-proclaimed psychics, so they start to wonder.