REPOST: Class Log: Real Vampires

[Winged_Wolf]

Winged_Wolf
04-29-2006, 03:06 AM

*** Log file opened: 4/28/2006 7:00:50 PM
[19:00] Elliptic [Elliptic@dhcp-064-247-068-135.sg2.ohiou.edu] has joined #Guild_Meetings
[19:00] WingedWolf sets mode: +v Elliptic
[19:00] G2_Wolf [~G2_Wolf@*.midsouth.res.rr.com] has joined #Guild_Meetings
[19:00] WingedWolf sets mode: +v G2_Wolf
[19:01] <Elliptic> I am playing Diablo, mostly here for the logs.
[19:01] <G2_Wolf> your link in the topic is out of date....
[19:01] Lumoure|Zz [~kvirc@*.client.mchsi.com] has joined #Guild_Meetings
[19:01] WingedWolf sets mode: +v Lumoure|Zz
[19:01] <G2_Wolf> and i don't think 5pm MTN is -7 GMT
[19:01] Firestorm is also logging, but is staying for about 30 minutes
[19:01] <Lumoure> Just logging my sister into here as she is also making herself some food atm so she is semi afk
[19:01] Lumoure|Zz is now known as Lumoure
[19:02] WingedWolf changes topic to "Class today at 5 PM Mtn. (-7 GMT) Real Vampires--Winged Wolf || The Psion Guild meeting room. Book time on the forum at http://www.psionguild.org/psionguildforum/viewforum.php?f=42 for seminars, closed/specialized discussions etc||Practice/sparring is done in #PsiPractice.||If no events are listed, use on a first-come basis."
[19:02] G2_Wolf is pretty sure you are at -6 GMT
[19:02] WingedWolf is pretty sure G2 is wrong.
[19:03] <Firestorm> nope, EST is GMT-5
[19:03] <Firestorm> and MST is 2 hours behind that
[19:03] <WingedWolf> mtn
[19:03] <Firestorm> oh
[19:03] <G2_Wolf> but, i'm at GMT-5.... and i'm CST
[19:03] <Firestorm> no, you're at 6
[19:03] <G2_Wolf> no, i'm at 5
[19:03] <Firestorm> let's consult the Wiki
[19:03] <Daimon> lol
[19:03] <Daimon> I'm at gmt+1. its 1 am here.
[19:04] <Elliptic> ...no, you're at 6, smrt. I am GMT-5.
[19:04] <Elliptic> Good game though.
[19:04] <G2_Wolf> i'm at -5 though
[19:04] VOID [VOID@*.dsl.fsr.net] has joined #Guild_Meetings
[19:04] WingedWolf sets mode: +v VOID
[19:04] WingedWolf rolls her eyes.
[19:04] <Elliptic> Except you're not, because that's EST.
[19:04] VOID sneaks in.
[19:04] WingedWolf spots him.
[19:05] VOID is now known as Draco_Platina
[19:05] <Elliptic> But you're still cool.
[19:05] <Elliptic> ok, diablo
[19:05] <Firestorm> EST is UTC-5
[19:05] <Firestorm> i've consulted the wiki
[19:05] <G2_Wolf> CDT = GMT-5
[19:05] <Firestorm> but during daylight savings time, its UTC-4
[19:05] <Firestorm> no, it does not G2
[19:05] <G2_Wolf> but we are in daylight savings time, aren't we
[19:05] <Firestorm> only during DST
[19:05] <Firestorm> no, we're not
[19:05] <Daimon> errm, we're all here, does it matter what time we got?
[19:05] <Daimon> lol
[19:06] <Firestorm> well, actually, yes we qare
[19:06] <Firestorm> are*
[19:06] <G2_Wolf> Daylight Saving Time begins for most of the United States at 2:00 a.m. on the first Sunday of April.
[19:06] <Draco_Platina> Quick, before I go back to chapter 53 "How to Make Dynamite"
[19:06] <Firestorm> but EST is still considered UTC-5
[19:06] <Firestorm> for general purposes
[19:06] <G2_Wolf> so i'm CDT... with is UTC-5 right now
[19:06] <WingedWolf> O_o
[19:06] <Daimon> ping me when we're starting..
[19:06] <Draco_Platina> It is 4pm PDT, no other time zone matters.
[19:07] <WingedWolf> I'm going to start now, just to get them to shut up.
[19:07] <Firestorm> lol good idea
[19:07] <G2_Wolf> I win, i'm UTC-5 right now
[19:07] <Firestorm> no, you lose, because I say so
[19:07] WingedWolf sorts through her thoughts.
[19:07] <Firestorm> the standard UTC-5 is EST, so you lose.
[19:07] WingedWolf sets mode: +v Serah
[19:07] <G2_Wolf> but, i'm not talking about the standard
[19:07] <Firestorm> its like saying that American English is the proper form
[19:07] <WingedWolf> Y'all shut up.
[19:08] <WingedWolf> lol
[19:08] <G2_Wolf> i'm talking about right now
[19:08] <Firestorm> lol
[19:08] <G2_Wolf> i'm utc-5
[19:08] Draco_Platina watches WW cast STFU
[19:08] <G2_Wolf> and MTN is utc-6 right no
[19:08] <G2_Wolf> now*
[19:08] <Firestorm> you lose. end of discussion. let WW speak.
[19:08] <WingedWolf> Ok, I'll start off by clearing up some of the more popular misconceptions.
[19:08] <G2_Wolf> i win, end of discussion
[19:09] <Firestorm> G2: warning
[19:09] <WingedWolf> And by moderating the room if people keep it up.
[19:09] <WingedWolf> While no one here thinks that real vampires are undead creatures that have crawled out of their graves, the metaphysical community still doesn't have a very good grasp of what they actually are.
[19:11] <WingedWolf> The media recently has decided that the 'crazy people who think they are vampires' are all gothic serial killers, so most of what people have learned recently comes from the idea that people who play too many roleplaying games and dress in black clothes are dangerous.
[19:11] Lumoure [~kvirc@*.client.mchsi.com] has left #Guild_Meetings (So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish!)
[19:11] Lumoure [~kvirc@*.client.mchsi.com] has joined #Guild_Meetings
[19:11] WingedWolf sets mode: +v Lumoure
[19:12] <Lumoure> hi people :-D
[19:12] <Haibane> My sister is an airhead >.>
[19:12] <Draco_Platina> Oh no, I'm dangerous!
[19:12] <WingedWolf> This is disproportional, because obviously most crimes aren't commited by goths, or by people who are associated with the vampire community.
[19:12] <WingedWolf> It DOES happen, it's just rare. Suffice to say that real vampires don't make a habit of going around attacking people.
[19:13] <WingedWolf> The other half of the misconception comes from metaphysical writers, who have had a few things to say about psychic vampires over the years.
[19:14] <WingedWolf> The primary part of that is to confuse real psychic vampires with people who cause others to become exhausted emotionally due to their behavior.
[19:15] Haibane has a question...
[19:15] <WingedWolf> In short, what a vampire is, is someone who has a need to take energy from other people in order to maintain their healthy. The means they might use to do this varies.
[19:15] <WingedWolf> Yes?
[19:15] G2_Wolf is now known as G2_Wolf||SleepingOnDesk
[19:15] <Haibane> Im not sure if this is true... but does the confusion arrise in part because some psi-vampires purposely use their behavior to rile up people and thus make more energy?
[19:16] <WingedWolf> HOld on, baby problem.
[19:16] <Haibane> Okey
[19:17] <WingedWolf> Haibane--while some psy-vampires do engage in the behavior you're talking about, the majority of people who do that aren't vampires.
[19:18] <Haibane> Okey, but could this contribute in part to the confusion?
[19:18] <WingedWolf> I'm sure that it had something to do with it, particularly initially.
[19:18] <Haibane> IE one bad apple makes the whole bunch seem a certain way etc etc
[19:18] <Haibane> Ah okey, ty :)
[19:20] <WingedWolf> There are two primary types of vampires. Sanguinarians are blood vamps...these people really do drink blood, but in small quantities (usually no more than a few tablespoons). They get this from willing donors. The most probable theory is that the blood enables a very strong link to their donor's energy field, enabling them to draw core energy.
[19:20] <WingedWolf> Core energy, or life energy, is much 'heavier' than psi energy, and therefore most people find it more difficult to handle.
[19:21] <WingedWolf> There is a possibility that sanguinarians also have a greater dietary need for something in blood, and adding rare beef or animal blood to their diet appears to alleviate some of the negative symptoms they experience if they don't have a donor.
[19:23] <WingedWolf> Sanguinarians have some fairly distinctive traits on a physical level. Mild to moderate photosensitivity is virtually ubiquitous. Severe photosensitivity has been reported in a few cases. Sunlight allergies (breaking out in a rash) are also relatively common.
[19:23] <WingedWolf> Most sanguinarians need to wear very dark sunglasses, or even welding glasses, to see comfortably in bright sunlight.
[19:24] <WingedWolf> The other side of this is an apparent improvement in night vision, and most sanguinarians can see clearly in light levels that have the majority of people unable to make out detail.
[19:25] G2_Wolf||SleepingOnDesk raises hand
[19:25] <WingedWolf> Yes?
[19:26] Firestorm has both mild photosensitivity and great night vision, but is not a vamp, which means that having these traits does not necessarily make you a psivamp
[19:26] <G2_Wolf> One reason most sanguinarians have better night vision might be because they tend to stay in darker areas and there eyes get used to the lack of light...
[19:26] <G2_Wolf> and that could also make the photosensitivity worse because there eyes get used to the lack of light...
[19:26] <Haibane> Not really... in fact if your night vision is not that good in the first place and you keep straining your eyes that could potentially worsen eye sight
[19:27] <Firestorm> except that the eyes adjusting is almost always a temporary thing
[19:27] <Haibane> IE why they tell people not to read in the dark etc etc
[19:27] Daimon wuold like to point out that these are Sanguinarian traits.
[19:28] <Lumoure> back
[19:28] <WingedWolf> one moment, children
[19:28] <Haibane> Shhh just read
[19:29] <Haibane> kk
[19:29] <WingedWolf> Yes, these traits only apply to sanguinarians.
[19:30] <WingedWolf> While sanguinarians are nocturnal, the majority are forced to work days, and are awake during the day just like everyone else.
[19:30] <WingedWolf> This means they're usually exposed to the same light levels.
[19:30] Firestorm must go to work now, but will continue logging
[19:30] <WingedWolf> There is little to no adaptation.
[19:30] <Haibane> KK, see ya FS
[19:31] <WingedWolf> They also tend to dehydrate and suffer from sunstroke more quickly than most people.
[19:32] Daimon has had that problem his whole life
[19:32] <WingedWolf> My ex screwed up my timetable by leaving earlier than usual, so I apologize for the interruptions, the kids need to get ready to leave.
[19:32] <Haibane> Np hehe... family always comes first :)
[19:33] <Haibane> Family your care about anyways xD
[19:33] <WingedWolf> lol
[19:33] <WingedWolf> Ok.
[19:34] <WingedWolf> In addition to the heightened night vision, a majority of sang vampires also report heightening of other senses, though not always all of them, or the same ones. Hearing and sense of smell are mentioned most often. It should be noted that many innate psis also report heightening of these senses, so this is not necessarily a strictly sanguinarian trait.
[19:35] <WingedWolf> The majority of sang vampires are innate psis. It can also be noted that they also appear to be innate life-energy workers, perhaps the only ones known.
[19:37] <WingedWolf> There are 3 causes I can point to for sanguinarian vampirism. The first is innate...a large portion of the sang vampire community were apparently born that way. Innate sanguinarian vampires can be identified by a barrier around the primary life-energy center, located just below the navel. This barrier is most visible when the vampire's energy system is depleted of energy. Their energy system also appears to be arranged more around the
[19:37] <WingedWolf> secondary life-energy center, up by the solar plexus, than around the primary center as it is in most people. The latter difference is more subtle.
[19:38] <WingedWolf> The barrier prevents energy from being radiated by the primary life energy center in great quantities. It appears to be controlled from within the system, and its permeability is variable. Instead, life-energy taken into the system forms a cloud in the core, and then condenses around the outside of the barrier. Once this occurs, the vampire's system looks and operates more normally, until the store runs out again.
[19:39] FxChiP [FxChiP@*.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #Guild_Meetings
[19:39] FxChiP sets mode: +o FxChiP
[19:39] WingedWolf sets mode: +v FxChiP
[19:39] <Haibane> Intruiging hehe
[19:40] <WingedWolf> Innate sang vampires apparently have the ability to create a construct overlay program that mimics vampiric traits and abilities, including the physical abilities. This can be placed over another person's system, thus turning them into a sang vampire as well. I'm not certain how common this is, but I've encountered multiple reports of it being done.
[19:40] Maverick1 [Maverick1@*.dialip.mich.net] has joined #Guild_Meetings
[19:40] WingedWolf sets mode: +v Maverick1
[19:41] <Haibane> Now this construct... does it change their physiology or is it just a construct that is added? Similar to what is done in making people into generators?
[19:41] <WingedWolf> This is not the most common way to 'make' a sang vampire, however. Vying for commonality with the innate sang vampires are those who are sanguinarian due to the influence of a symbiotic spirit entity which modifies their system.
[19:42] <Elliptic> At about what age does an innate vampire recognize the characteristics of such?
[19:42] <WingedWolf> Haibane--it may be similar in nature to the construct overlay that makes people into generators, but it is life-energy based. Thus, it tends to be integrated more thoroughly and quickly. It does appear to change their physiology, insofar as granting them the sensory differences, and sensitivities.
[19:43] <Haibane> Ah
[19:43] <Elliptic> A genetic basis would indicate that it would be present immediately, as there seems to be some kind of biological requirement for blood and such...
[19:43] <WingedWolf> Elliptic: Many sanguinarians have vampiric traits from a young age, but they are usually reduced. The majority experience a heightening of these traits around puberty.
[19:43] <Elliptic> I see.
[19:44] <WingedWolf> In a majority of cases, if you have a sanguinarian who had NO vampiric traits as a child, that individual was probably turned.
[19:44] Elliptic nods.
[19:45] <WingedWolf> The symbiotic entities which can cause sanguinarian vampirism attach themselve to the center of the chest in the core of the field. Many are intelligent enough to disguise themselves, cloak, misdirect, or use other means to avoid detection, but they are also psi-sensitive. Prodding with psi energy will usually cause them to reveal themselves.
[19:45] <WingedWolf> They're quite strong, and appear to be comprised of a mixture of life-energy and Veil or Boundary energy.
[19:45] <Haibane> I still say they sound like gu'auld >.>
[19:45] <WingedWolf> lol
[19:46] <WingedWolf> No, the host's instincts and emotions may be influenced, but they're not 'possessed' in that sense.
[19:46] <Haibane> Well except for that :p
[19:46] <WingedWolf> Any other questions about sanguinarians?
[19:48] <Haibane> Youd mentioned the natural occuring tentacle like things before? Or is this for the Psi vampires?
[19:48] <WingedWolf> Daimon has bravely volunteered to let you all scan him, if you want to look for the barrier around the primary life-energy center to see what it looks like. He is sanguinarian.
[19:48] <WingedWolf> Haibane--psi-vamps.
[19:48] <Haibane> ah
[19:48] <FxChiP> Anyone need it spraypainted? Probably not, but...
[19:48] <Daimon> lol
[19:49] <Haibane> Is he naturally or does he have a sybiote?
[19:49] <Haibane> *sybiot
[19:50] <FxChiP> Natural
[19:50] <Haibane> Ah
[19:50] <Daimon> so your the one who poked me?
[19:50] <WingedWolf> Some sanguinarians, generally the innate or construct-overlay turned vamps, are capable of drawing life-energy directly, and may do so instinctively when their system is depleted. When uncontrolled, this is usually a single deep link thrust into the other person's core, and then a small amount of energy is pulled, and the link is released.
[19:50] <FxChiP> He did have a symbiote; in that case, I am told, the symbiote just sort of parasites
[19:50] <WingedWolf> No he didn't.
[19:50] <Daimon> uhm, I never had a symbiont
[19:50] <FxChiP> He didn't? Okay
[19:50] <Daimon> Innate
[19:50] <FxChiP> My fault, then :)
[19:50] <WingedWolf> You're thinking of someone else, I think.
[19:51] <FxChiP> I thought you mentioned *some* innate sang contracting one
[19:51] <WingedWolf> Yes, someone else.
[19:51] <FxChiP> ah
[19:51] <FxChiP> my fault
[19:51] <Daimon> no prob
[19:51] <WingedWolf> It's possible for an innate sang to have a symbiont as well, so if you spot a critter, don't assume the person isn't also an innate.
[19:51] <Haibane> Im going to just try look at a distance as I have a bad habit of "tasting" things around me inadvertantly >.<
[19:51] <Haibane> And dont want to muck with the energy >.>
[19:52] <FxChiP> gawd, certain things 'taste' bad. :P
[19:52] <WingedWolf> lol
[19:52] <Daimon> haha
[19:52] <WingedWolf> All right, if there are no more questions?
[19:52] <Haibane> nupe non from me :p
[19:53] <WingedWolf> The other primary type of real vampire is the psychic vampire.
[19:53] <WingedWolf> Psychic vampires do not have the distinctive sensory abilities or traits of sang vampires--the generally have the same traits as other innate psis, as the majority of them are innate psi.
[19:53] <G2_Wolf> lol Haibane
[19:54] <WingedWolf> Psychic vampires may require psi energy, life energy, or both from others. There are many causes for this.
[19:54] <WingedWolf> Perhaps the most common is damage or blockages in the psy-vamp's energy system.
[19:55] <WingedWolf> The damage may prevent them from generating energy in high enough quantity to maintain, or block the energy from reaching all areas of their system as it should. In some cases, the damage causes energy to leak from their system at a greater rate than they can replace it through generation.
[19:56] <WingedWolf> This cause for psychic vampirism is repairable, but it should be noted that not all psy-vampires want repairs. Some prefer being the way they are due to karma, or other beliefs along that line.
[19:57] <WingedWolf> Second most common, a young psi will experience 'draining and dumping' as their abilities awaken, where they will draw energy from those around them and project or dump it to ground, randomly.
[19:58] <WingedWolf> In some cases these individuals will discover that drawing energy deliberately after dumping it makes them feel better, so it becomes a habit, and then an addiction.
[19:58] <WingedWolf> brb (any questions thus far?)
[19:59] <Haibane> That happened to me... thank goodness I kept trying to find out what was going on :p
[20:00] <FxChiP> Is there an overlay for this as wel?
[20:00] <G2_Wolf> That might be happening to me... the dumping stuff
[20:00] <FxChiP> well*
[20:00] G2_Wolf||SleepingOnDesk is now known as G2_Wolf
[20:00] <Haibane> I dont do so, any more but I sometimes when stressed I build up energy and then it dumps ... not purposely and it doesnt feel good >.>
[20:01] Draco_Platina has been known to cycle heavy energies through an external rig...
[20:02] Lucianus [~Wolfv359v1of1@*.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #Guild_Meetings
[20:02] WingedWolf sets mode: +v Lucianus
[20:02] <Daimon> allo Lucianus
[20:03] <Haibane> Hello
[20:03] Lucianus shakes
[20:03] <Lucianus> hallo
[20:03] <WingedWolf> back, sorry about that, ex came for the kids...he was wearing red sunglasses, and my daughter freaked out, rofl.
[20:03] <Haibane> o.O
[20:03] <WingedWolf> (she's 2)
[20:04] <Haibane> Ah xD
[20:04] <Haibane> Still red sunglasses, scary? >.>
[20:04] <WingedWolf> lol, they're mirrored, too.
[20:04] Draco_Platina thefts the glasses
[20:04] <Haibane> lol
[20:05] <WingedWolf> So, anyhow--Yes, Fx, though it's rare to encounter, there are some psy-vamps who are that way due to an overlay.
[20:05] FxChiP also thefts the glasses
[20:05] <WingedWolf> A spirit entity, generally parasitical, can also cause a person to become vampiric to maintain their energy levels.
[20:05] Lucianus then thefts the glasses and breaks them into bits, then gets to reading.
[20:05] <Haibane> I would not mind mirrored sun glasses... people seem to get angry if one makes eye contact... I dont know what >.<
[20:05] <Haibane> *why
[20:06] <WingedWolf> Least common, psychic vampirism can be innate.
[20:07] <WingedWolf> This can be a genetic characteristic, or developmental difference. Genetic psi-vamps have no psi-energy generation ability, and produce less energy than a non-active person. They have, however, instinctive use of other psi abilities, so spend energy and thus must pull energy from other sources to maintain their energy levels.
[20:07] G2_Wolf had red sunglasses, lost them
[20:08] <WingedWolf> They tend to be excellent energy manipulators, and have hypercapacity ability, so are difficult to overload, though they don't have the speed that generators have, usually.
[20:08] <WingedWolf> They can also crop up in the Switcher/Phase-Switcher lines, with a somewhat lower capacity.
[20:10] <Draco_Platina> Question: Would a Sink switch be considered an order of vampiric, or is it even possible for the two to be combined?
[20:10] <WingedWolf> One identifying characteristic of psy-vamps is their tendency to instinctively use a network of links that look like tentancles to pull energy from individuals, or from groups of people. This is NOT exclusive to psi-vamps, some other psis do this as well. Nor do ALL psi-vamps use this method of drawing energy--but it IS very, very common.
[20:11] <WingedWolf> Draco--Sinks don't pull energy from others, they just make anything thrown at them or given to them disappear. Nor can they manipulate energy, apparently. They aren't aware of it.
[20:11] <Draco_Platina> So a sink does not pull on energy of others in their locality?
[20:11] <Haibane> Im thankful to God Im not a sink >.<life>.>
[20:11] <WingedWolf> Correct.
[20:12] <Draco_Platina> Hmm, and there's been no encounters with something like I've described?
[20:12] <WingedWolf> In any case, find me another sink, I know only one. He may or may not be that way naturally, as he has a piece of shrapnel in his head.
[20:12] <Haibane> Ouch :(
[20:12] <Draco_Platina> :S
[20:12] <Haibane> Poor man
[20:12] <WingedWolf> He's ok...but it can't be removed.
[20:12] <WingedWolf> lol
[20:13] <Lucianus> where in the head? if it is known.
[20:13] <WingedWolf> I don't know, Luc, sorry.
[20:13] <FxChiP> Physical shrapnel?
[20:13] <WingedWolf> Yes, Fx.
[20:14] <Lucianus> k. no biggy
[20:14] <WingedWolf> Any other questions thus far?
[20:16] <WingedWolf> All right. Most psychic vampires are able to pull energy from those in their immediate vicinity, but some require physical contact. A few feed sexually, either out of preference, or due to requiring the spike in energy production and shed energy that results...they can either be participants, or observers. These folk tend to call themselves succubi or incubi, after the demons that in mythology accosted people sexually in their sleep.
[20:16] <WingedWolf> Some psy-vamps are able to pull energy from individual via long-distance links as well.
[20:18] <WingedWolf> Young/newly awakened psy-vamps may be unaware of what they are doing, pulling energy instinctively. It's not known what sort of numbers these unconscious vampires occur in. Control needs to be learned, and can take a while, after they gain an awareness of what's happening.
[20:19] <WingedWolf> The vampire community has actually been around for decades now. Prior to the popularity of the internet, it consisted mostly of small local groups which had limited contact with outsiders.
[20:19] <WingedWolf> There was also contact via pen-pal networks.
[20:20] <WingedWolf> Once Prodigy network came up, the numbers of vampires interacting online increased, and they began to organize into online communities. At this stage, while the community is FAR from unified, it is very extensive, with a great many small groups and "houses" all exchanging information. Offline groups, interactions and meetings are extremely common.
[20:22] <WingedWolf> The result of this increasingly integrated community has been improvements in education for younger vampires--safety in terms of the advocation of blood-testing and safe bloodletting practices for sanguinarians, standards of ethical behavior for all types of vamps, and it has also been helpful for them in terms of attracting and finding willing donors.
[20:24] <WingedWolf> While psychic vampires do not have the legal incentive to behave ethically, the vampire community's advocation of ethical and nonaggressive behavior is resulting in greater and greater numbers of psi-vamps who will take energy only from willing donors. Taking energy from individuals who are not consenting is openly frowned on. There are still many grey areas in the psy-vamp community. Pulling energy from non-actives is not universally
[20:24] <WingedWolf> considered unethical, for example--though doing so to the point of causing harm is. Pulling shed energy from crowds, called 'ambient feeding' is generally accepted.
[20:27] <WingedWolf> It should be noted that vampires in general have made an effort to take pride in being what they are. The result of this has been that ethical standards and behavior continue to improve, and many vamps care about the community they have formed, and about its image. This is a fairly positive thing.
[20:27] Lumoure [~kvirc@*.client.mchsi.com] has quit IRC (Quit: KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia')
[20:28] <Haibane> hmmm... her loss
[20:28] <Haibane> (referring to my sister)
[20:28] <WingedWolf> While it may be possible to 'cure' any type of vampire through fixing a problem that causes the condition, or making outright alterations or additions to change how their system functions, a very large number of vampires will not want that done. I encourage that choice to be accepted, as there is still a lot of things we do NOT know about the types of skills vampires have.
[20:28] <WingedWolf> In truth a great many vampires make excellent healers.
[20:29] <WingedWolf> The man with the highest ressucitation rate among paramedics in the U.S. for a while was a sanguinarian vampire.
[20:29] <Turbo> is that proven?
[20:29] <Haibane> Well considering they can work with life energy directly is it a surprise?
[20:29] <WingedWolf> I knew him.
[20:30] <WingedWolf> Precisely...he once got a pulse on a braindead guy...it didn't last, but that doesn't usually happen. He was using life-energy like shock paddles.
[20:31] <Haibane> This may be an interesting skill to learn in case of emergencies in the field of work I hope to go into
[20:31] <WingedWolf> I know of several sanguinarians working in rescue services and firefighting.
[20:31] <Haibane> I by no means expect to be as good, but if there where to be complications this would be a good thing
[20:32] <WingedWolf> I know I'd rather have a sang with that sort of skill in the ambulance to look after my family than anyone else I can think of.
[20:33] <Lucianus> noting vampire skills some psi vampires have an easy skill of some ambient feed techniques while others do not as good.
[20:34] <WingedWolf> So, there are many capabilities possessed by both sang and psi vamps that haven't been fully explored, and some of them may well derive from their vampiric condition. I should note that willing donors are exactly that--they generally enjoy donating energy, or blood. Due to the increasing ethical standards in the community, donors tend to be very well treated, and are not harmed. So this cannot really be considered more objectionable than,
[20:34] <Lucianus> this being expanding there field/ or aura as terms go. to create a pulling function to pull energy into self.
[20:34] <WingedWolf> say, the S&M community.
[20:35] <Elliptic> Actually, technically it falls under the category of edgeplay. :)
[20:36] <WingedWolf> At worst, it's an interaction between consenting adults that causes no permanent harm, thus is no one else's business. At best, it appears to be mutually beneficial.
[20:36] <WingedWolf> I believe I've covered everything...any questions?
[20:38] <G2_Wolf> Where'd you get all your information from?
[20:38] <WingedWolf> Over a decade's worth of interaction in the vampire community, polls conducted by myself and others in the community, and direct observation.
[20:38] <Haibane> Shes dont a lot of research aka xD
[20:39] <Lucianus> has it occur that some newly awakened vampires develop or feel almost immediate need to sheild at earlier times than say someone above a non energy levels?
[20:39] Daimon [Daimon@*.telia.com] has quit IRC (Quit: �� THR|LLER �� v1.4 [www.thriller.tk])
[20:40] <WingedWolf> I have not heard of psi-vamps requiring shielding sooner than non-vamps, but some vamps awaken in early childhood, and innate psi-vamps are born-on, thus generally awaken when very very young.
[20:40] <WingedWolf> They DO pull energy from others at this very young age.
[20:41] <WingedWolf> Parents may wish to shield their children to prevent them from dropping their classmates, but then their energy level will still need to be maintained, or they will become ill.
[20:41] <WingedWolf> I should cover that as well.
[20:43] <WingedWolf> If vampires don't get what they need, that is energy from others, they suffer depression, immune system depression, fatigue, and increasing lassitude. Many report symptoms similar to chronic fatigue. Some sanguinarians report painful stomach cramps, though this is less common than the other symptoms.
[20:43] <FxChiP> Sounds like a pharmaceutical commercial.
[20:45] <WingedWolf> Sanguinarians tend to have periodic episodes of 'blood rage' in an extreme deficit state...this is a powerful craving that is extremely uncomfortable. Psy-vamps also experience a strong craving to draw energy, and if they do not, they may lose control of their system and wind up drawing uncontrollably anyhow.
[20:45] <FxChiP> Is there a way to help either if they are in such a state?
[20:46] <Elliptic> Provided that, at least in a limited number of circumstances, vampirism can be "cured," why is it that such a large number in the community expresses depression and agony over their status, yet, and it may have been a specific circumstance with me, so I'm unsure, they often react hostily to offers of assistance?
[20:46] <WingedWolf> I'll answer those one at a time.
[20:47] <WingedWolf> Obviously, sending energy to a psi-vamp will help them, if they're in an extreme deficit state.
[20:47] <WingedWolf> Likewise, in the case of innate sanguinarians, sending life-energy can resolve blood-rage, though it's not certain it will always do so. This is less likely to be beneficial to a turned sang vampire.
[20:48] <WingedWolf> Most sanguinarians who are raging aren't able to form a link to draw life-energy directly, possibly due to lack of concentration, but their system may also be in an extreme state of energy conservation, so that they can't send the energy out to create the link.
[20:48] <Elliptic> Ah, yes, the other bit...given that turned vampires appear to be such as a result of energetic programming, it should be equally simple to "cure" them, yes? I assume, however, the number of turns unhappy with their condition is likely lower.
[20:49] <WingedWolf> Elliptic, I'll address your question next.
[20:49] <Elliptic> I have two, I'm just queueing them up or I'll forget them.
[20:49] <WingedWolf> Sanguinarians also usually find that very rare red meat, or animal blood, can resolve a blood rage--naturally, feeding from a donor will do so.
[20:50] <WingedWolf> The former two methods are not reportedly a total solution, but help to alleviate the craving.
[20:51] <Lucianus> what about iron supplements i sometimes overhear.?
[20:51] <WingedWolf> Now, Elli's question--as I said before, most vampires take pride in being what they are, and do not want to become something else. They don't see being vampiric as a negative condition that needs to be cured. Thought it can be distressing mentally and physically when they dont' have a willing donor.
[20:51] <WingedWolf> In other cases, vampires see their state as the result of karma, or some past life experience, and feel that they need to be this way to learn something from it.
[20:52] <Turbo> May I ask.. "blood rage"? What is it?
[20:52] <Draco_Platina> I have a question that I consider to be a good one; do you know of any cases of a donor accidentally being turned during a feeding, and is it possible?
[20:52] <WingedWolf> Ok, slow down folks...I'm still back on Elli's second question.
[20:53] <WingedWolf> Elliptic--among turned vampires who were turned DELIBERATELY, the numbers who want to be cured is vanishingly small. It's rare for innate vampires to wish to be cured. Most of those who would prefer to be cured are those who were turned unwillingly, by vamps who weren't aware of what they were doing, or who were behaving unethically--or by symbiont entities.
[20:54] <WingedWolf> Luc--Iron supplements provide very little help for sang vampires, though they may resolve cases of actual anemia--which do occasionally occur among sang vamps.
[20:55] <Lucianus> Blood rage. ill get filled in later i guess by WW. are noted in Increased Anger, Quick Temper, and Some Hostility. at least for symptoms.
[20:55] <WingedWolf> Turbo--blood rage, though it's known by a few other names in the vamp community, is a state of powerful craving and obsession. It is best likened to an addiction craving--suffering from withdrawel from nicotine, for example.
[20:56] <Turbo> ok
[20:56] <Elliptic> Ah, I see. I suppose one of my questions here might be why there is a preponderance of depressive or "dark" behaviors in vampire communities? I see a large overlap between vampire and goth communities...which tends to be quite depressive in nature, and a lot of "woe am I" type gibberish, followed by an unwillingness to attempt change...
[20:56] <WingedWolf> Draco--yes, I do know of cases of donors being turned accidently. The vast majority of the time this occurs when the cause of the vampirism is due to a spirit entity.
[20:57] <Elliptic> From a support standpoint, I'm looking at how I would want to address this, because it seems we're getting a new and sudden influx of vampire folks, vampires being the new cool thing, after all.
[20:57] <WingedWolf> Elliptic--There is some overlap between the communities, usually between the sang and goth communities, not so commonly among psi-vamps. This overlap is growing smaller as the community becomes larger and more organized.
[20:58] <WingedWolf> It is most likely that sang vampires LIKE to identify themselves with the romantic image of the vampire that has become popularized recently by authors like Anne Rice. Far better an association than any of the others available, if you must associate with something.
[20:59] Turbo fails to see how 'vampire' can be romantic
[20:59] <WingedWolf> However, the association of vampires with the goth culture is encouraged by neither. Vampires who are goth are likely now to point out that they are not goth BECAUSE they are vampires, nor are goths vampiric.
[20:59] <Turbo> I just think of dracula
[20:59] <WingedWolf> Well, Bela Lugosi actually WAS considered romantic by many, Turbo. At that time.
[20:59] <Elliptic> So then the majority of vampire folks who are apparently depressive are actually rather enjoying the state?
[20:59] <WingedWolf> No, depression is generally associated with lack of feeding.
[20:59] <Turbo> He was sure.. but dracula was scary. Im not talking abotu the actor
[21:00] <WingedWolf> Yes--scary, but also powerful. Who wouldn't want to be an immortal shapeshifter with the ability to make women come crawling? rofl
[21:00] <Haibane> Yes... Vlad the Empaler .... not a nice man
[21:00] <Elliptic> There is no causal relationship, I'm aware, goth is not equivalent to vampire, but the overlap in the communities is enough that it indicates no desire to separate itself. I'd actually be interested in seeing any non-gothic vampiric communities.
[21:01] <WingedWolf> Elliptic--in truth, most of the vamp communities are NOT gothic. They are inclusive. That means there will be gothic vamps involved with them--as well as many who are not.
[21:02] <WingedWolf> Goth culture is usually given a small spot to be discussed, if that.
[21:02] <WingedWolf> There is also often a connection with the fetish communities--given as much attention as goth culture.
[21:03] <WingedWolf> I can tell you that the owner of the Smoke and Mirrors forum and community isn't a goth, nor is her son. lol
[21:04] <Haibane> Keep in mind that people usually looking from the outside in (the general populace), see Vampires as a type of fetish too
[21:04] <Haibane> Err Vampirism
[21:05] <WingedWolf> Yes, but that is a misconception. While some vampires combine feeding and sexuality, a majority actually do not, nor do they derive anything sexual from it.
[21:05] <Elliptic> Fair enough, and there's no doubt very specific definitions of things...but I see vampiric communities typically as having the same identifying features as a goth community. They tend to be dark, dismal, and depressive. They tend to be rather self-loathing, as well. I have seen lots of 'woe is me.' At the same time, I don't have nearly the penetrative insight you do. Are you proposing that such is not the norms?
[21:05] <WingedWolf> Donors are more likely to be sexually motivated, but that is not always the case either.
[21:05] <WingedWolf> Actually, the darkness is to protect their eyes, Elliptic.
[21:06] <WingedWolf> The association with goth culture is still there, as is the association with vampire fiction, but it's not everywhere.
[21:06] <Haibane> Isnt this because there is some sort of sexual energy released with the process of blood letting?
[21:07] <WingedWolf> The depression is a combination of the fact that sang vampires tend to have problems finding willing donors, thus many are starving...and the fact that they do indeed experience some lack of self-confidence due to their need to be reliant on others.
[21:07] <Haibane> I mean the motivation for blood letting
[21:07] <WingedWolf> So they gain a great deal of support from participating in the community.
[21:07] <Elliptic> Fair enough. I suppose Daimon is a fine example of a "happy" vampire...and yet even there, he has the air of the pseudo-persecuted.
[21:07] <WingedWolf> Haibane--Sexual activity releases a lot of life energy, and blood is a link to life-energy, but bloodletting can be as prosaic an act as it would be at the doctor's office.
[21:08] <WingedWolf> Not going to pick on individuals in their absence Elli...nor comment. lol
[21:08] <Haibane> Ah
[21:09] <Elliptic> Fair enough. Let's generalize: is the vampire community as pseudo-persecuted, say, as the otherkin? That is, do they really perceive such a huge degree of persecution?
[21:09] G2_Wolf is now known as G2_Wolf||LowOnResources
[21:09] <Elliptic> I think the majority of the population, especially in Europe, is more likely to say "oh, ok, you weirdo" than, say, attempt to attack or kill vampires...
[21:09] Morgania [~morgania@*.plus.com] has joined #Guild_Meetings
[21:09] WingedWolf sets mode: +v Morgania
[21:10] <WingedWolf> The question is presumptive. Vampires DO experience persecution by the general populace. If word of their habits gets out, they may be ostracized, lose their jobs, even have their children taken away--this has all HAPPENED.
[21:10] <Elliptic> With the exception, perhaps, of Macedonia, where the stigma would remain from folklore and such.
[21:10] <Lucianus> for some vampires the stuck unknowingly in need to draw energy but not aware thus sink into depression for the lack of feeding and thus tramatic experiences explode in the perspective.
[21:10] <Elliptic> I will look into those court records, if you can so much as tell me where someone has had their children taken away...
[21:10] <Lucianus> some people actually want to hunt modern vamps and kill them...
[21:11] <Haibane> I remeber reading of those.... even found a website on that once
[21:11] Haibane shudders
[21:11] <Haibane> Those people also feel very icky
[21:11] <Elliptic> Actually, probably not, given that it'd be in family court with sealed records. I can find it, I'm sure.
[21:11] <G2_Wolf> Those people should be shot, just like people who go around door-to-door about God and stuff
[21:12] <WingedWolf> Elliptic--I don't have any on hand. At the moment, Jonathan Sharkey's ex girlfriend is in a court battle with her ex husband over the children. Her being a Witch was publicized, but she carefully played down her vampirism.
[21:12] <Elliptic> Yes, Haibane, I'd imagine Hunting Lodges and such may well be involved in "vampire hunting" from time to time, but then, I'm uncertain.
[21:12] <WingedWolf> She lost her job for being his girlfriend.
[21:13] <Haibane> Whatever you do, if you have any sort of empathy do not go near the sites of "modern" vampire hunters because they carry A LOT of emotional ickyness on them
[21:13] <Haibane> I mean these people are sick
[21:13] <Draco_Platina> Just my kind of place.
[21:13] <WingedWolf> For those unaware, Jonathan Sharkey was publically a vampire and satanist who was running for public office. It was a farce, and he's a loon.
[21:13] <Morgania> The Impaler ?
[21:13] <Elliptic> That's well and good, but this seems to be a rare enough occurence...I think the communities are fringe enough for there to be no public persecution. I have never once seen an example of public persecution of vampires the way there is persecution of racial minorities, or even the mentally disabled...
[21:14] <WingedWolf> However, his girlfriend lost her job as a schoolbus driver simply for BEING his girlfriend..and also for being Wiccan, which is going to cause some court battles.
[21:14] <WingedWolf> Elliptic--racial minorities and the mentally disabled are protected by law.
[21:14] <Morgania> Maybe note for vampyres elliptic, but i've seen alot of it for wiccan and what not.
[21:14] <G2_Wolf> heh, someone asked if I was wiccan yesterday.....
[21:15] <WingedWolf> You cannot take someone's children from them because they're a minority, or mentally disabled, so long as they're competant.
[21:15] <Elliptic> That's exactly what I'm saying.
[21:15] <WingedWolf> They can and will take someone's children from them for being a vampire.
[21:15] <WingedWolf> It's not a religion, and it's not protected.
[21:15] <Elliptic> Only if that person demonstrates incompetence.
[21:15] <WingedWolf> No.
[21:16] <Elliptic> Protection isn't the issue. The court process is too arduous for me to see this as a place where CPS would step in.
[21:16] <Morgania> In my oppinion, alot of people view believing your a vampire as mentaly ill, which could be viewed as incompetence.
[21:16] <WingedWolf> They can simply state they believe the parent's lifestyle might be harmful to the child--that's enough, and they can and they will do it, and they have done it.
[21:16] <Lucianus> some attribute murders that are involved with goth site and general relate information that if its even involved with even fake vampires that a dissenting eye will be also turned to noticeable vampire communities who have little or no association with such sites or activily prevent their association with such sites.
[21:16] <Haibane> That does not sound unusual considering the system loves to remove children even for things as simple as sexual preference
[21:17] <Elliptic> I have seen children remain in abusive homes where the child was regularly injured deliberately by the parent simply because the expense of removing the child was too much. I have a hard time seeing a non-harmful practice such as vampirism getting CPS to follow through.
[21:17] <WingedWolf> Vampirism is not seen by the general populace as anything other than a mental illness, a dangerous sexual fetish, or an occult activity--often all three.
[21:17] <Haibane> What about homosexual couples? This is not any more or less dangerous than Vampirism is it?
[21:17] <Elliptic> And? None of the above are grounds enough for CPS to win a court battle about it.
[21:17] <WingedWolf> Elliptic--you would obviously be surprised.
[21:18] <Lucianus> in some places since vampirism or paganism and etc are not recogn have no recognition and usually require uclu(i think thats it) help in some cases.
[21:18] <Elliptic> I would be surprised. It's why I'm asking for a source on your information...which I know you said before you wouldn't be able to provide, so I will remain skeptical of such persecution.
[21:18] <Elliptic> ACLU, Lucianus.
[21:18] <WingedWolf> In any case, it is this mixture of genuine and extreme persecution, and in large part the FEAR of such persecution, that creates the attitude you're speaking of.
[21:19] <WingedWolf> Many vamp communities even advocate a set of rules or guidelines for vampires which includes NEVER publicizing your vampirism, or revealing it to the public.
[21:19] <Elliptic> Yes, I've noticed such.
[21:20] <WingedWolf> There have been enough incidents of genuine persecution to reinforce this fear...and vampires, particularly sanguinarians, tend to be a bit naturally paranoid.
[21:21] <Haibane> Thank goodness my drain and dump thing and all this was a phase >.< I would hate to actually be stuck in that boat. No offense to vampires, but I was experiencing some of those issues during that time as well, and it was very icky/not fun time of my life
[21:21] <WingedWolf> What you are looking at is a very young comnunity, with very little unity to it, that is still growing and forming.
[21:21] <Morgania> The sad thign is, the world is not perfect. Hell, the us has a president which is openly against homosexuality, its not hard to imagine people being persecuted for being sanguarian
[21:21] <Elliptic> This leads me around again...if the persecution is so great that many of them live in constant fear, why is it that there are people willing to voluntarily enter into it, and people remain in it despite an option?
[21:21] <Haibane> I would hate to imagine having to deal with it every day period
[21:22] <Elliptic> Young community? I was under the impression most communities enjoyed claiming a lineage thousands of years old? Obviously not in re, but by proxy of other vampires?
[21:22] <WingedWolf> It's difficult to say, Elliptic. Usually their reasons are complex. But the basic reason would be that they enjoy the abilities, and enjoy feeding.
[21:23] <WingedWolf> Elliptic--actually, that's a more common claim among Wicca than vampires. lol
[21:23] <Elliptic> It strikes me along the lines of the Wiccans pretending to have the same thousands of years, when the religion began in the 50s?
[21:23] <Elliptic> Yes.
[21:23] <Turbo> What is there to enjoy? Is there a feeling attributed to it?
[21:23] <Elliptic> Along with the "burning tymez" et al.
[21:23] <WingedWolf> I haven't seen much of it in the vamp community. The most I've seen is things like someone saying they had an ancestor reputed to be a vampire--or that their grandfather was a vampire.
[21:23] <G2_Wolf> Some people wiling join it because they think they will be cool and get all these cool abilities and super-strength and stuff and they don't look at the downsides of being a vamp.
[21:23] <WingedWolf> Which is entirely possible, for innate sangs.
[21:24] <Maverick1> G2: alot of that goes on with psionics too
[21:24] <WingedWolf> G2--those people usually wind up not getting what they are after.
[21:24] Felidae [~Choronzo@*.dial.telus.net] has joined #Guild_Meetings
[21:24] WingedWolf sets mode: +v Felidae
[21:24] <WingedWolf> At this time, the Sanguinarian community PUBLICALLY denies that it is possible for someone to be turned into a sang vamp.
[21:24] <Haibane> Its funny how many people go onto those forums wanting to be turned, haha
[21:24] <Elliptic> Why is it that you've blown their cover, then?
[21:24] <WingedWolf> They know better, but they publically insist it cannot be done, in order to ward off exactly the type of youngsters you mentioned, G2.
[21:25] <WingedWolf> Because I personally believe that it does more harm than good, as young vamps may not be told about it for years...if ever...and thus may turn people without realizing they could.
[21:26] <WingedWolf> The line is that vampirism is always innate, and can only be 'awakened' if it is latent.
[21:26] G2_Wolf||LowOnResources has done a bit of research into vampires also a few months ago... :)
[21:26] <Elliptic> Earlier you claimed that innate vamps demonstrate vampiristic tendencies from birth, but may not actually require to feed until after puberty. What kind of traits?
[21:27] <Morgania> http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050526/NEWS01/505260481
[21:27] <WingedWolf> Sunlight sensitivity, nocturnal tendencies, heightened senses, and lowgrade blood craving.
[21:28] <Elliptic> "low grade blood craving?"
[21:28] <WingedWolf> There are quite a few stories of angered vamps in childhood biting to draw blood from other children, or drinking the blood of friends who got a cut.
[21:29] <G2_Wolf> probably also an obsession with rare steak?
[21:29] <WingedWolf> Yep.
[21:29] <Morgania> Aye, sometimes.
[21:30] G2_Wolf||LowOnResources is obsessed with steak... but usually medium rare or medium.... can't stand a cold steak
[21:30] <G2_Wolf> it's fun to go in to a vampire chat and say you had a nice juicy steak earlier for dinner :)
[21:30] <WingedWolf> So, any other questions?
[21:30] <Haibane> Asshole
[21:30] <Elliptic> That ruling is almost a year old, and I virtually guarantee it will be overturned.
[21:31] <Elliptic> Yeah, more questions here. Are these tendencies all obtained by self-report?
[21:31] <Haibane> G2 you should be more considerate of people, because the tables can always be turned...
[21:31] <WingedWolf> The fact is hasn't been yet over a year later is alarming enough.
[21:31] <WingedWolf> But it's not really relevent to this.
[21:31] <WingedWolf> Elliptic--No, parents have also reported the behavior of their children.
[21:32] <Elliptic> Ok.
[21:32] <Elliptic> Can you give me an approximate estimate about the number of vampires? And please not a "1 in 10" thing, because that kind of stat will make me incredulous.
[21:32] <WingedWolf> I couldn't, really.
[21:33] <G2_Wolf> Haibane, i was kidding
[21:33] <Draco_Platina> So there's been no 'scientific' testing of the traits, amatuer or otherwise?
[21:33] <WingedWolf> I can say 'tens of thousands in the US'. That would be the best I can do right now.
[21:33] <Elliptic> Ok, fair enough. I just wanted to know what likelihood I'm going to have of encountering this.
[21:33] <Elliptic> Tens of thousands sounds like a decent estimate.
[21:33] <WingedWolf> Draco--there have been amature tests aplenty.
[21:33] <Haibane> G2, that was not funny
[21:33] <WingedWolf> Elliptic--a rather high liklihood. I know of one sang vamp in my city, just through friends, though I don't know him personally.
[21:34] <G2_Wolf> old people have friends?
[21:34] <Draco_Platina> Amatuer like little kid amatuer or like Draco's mPK research amatuer?
[21:34] G2_Wolf||LowOnResources hides
[21:34] <Elliptic> I have a high one in my position, I mean. I guess I'm indirectly hinting at wondering how many more vampires you're going to bring by here?
[21:34] <WingedWolf> Because sang vampires are generally innate psis, running into them in the psi and metaphysical communities is most likely.
[21:34] <Elliptic> Fair enough.
[21:35] <WingedWolf> Psi-vampires, obviously likewise.
[21:35] Lucianus nod
[21:35] <WingedWolf> They find their way to the Guild community on their own, too, the Guild is known of in the vamp communities as a psi information resource.
[21:35] <WingedWolf> So is Psi-Pog.
[21:35] <WingedWolf> They also know to keep their mouths shut in Psi-Pog.
[21:36] <WingedWolf> lol
[21:36] <Elliptic> hehe
[21:36] <G2_Wolf> lol
[21:36] <Lucianus> yep.
[21:36] <Haibane> Psi pog >_>
[21:36] Haibane hides
[21:36] <Elliptic> How often do the pagan communities overlap? I assume most are either atheist or polytheist or of some other "alternative religion?"
[21:36] <WingedWolf> In reality, vamps are present in most of the psi and magick communities, they simply don't advertise what they are in places where there's a hint they may not be accepted for it.
[21:37] <G2_Wolf> The Guild is mentioned almost everywhere that involves psi
[21:37] <WingedWolf> There is a lot of overlap, most vamps I think are pagan, though not by any means ALL of them.
[21:37] <Elliptic> Of course not.
[21:37] <G2_Wolf> where'd daimon go?
[21:38] <WingedWolf> To bed, G2
[21:38] <Elliptic> Probably to bed.
[21:38] <WingedWolf> lol
[21:38] <Felidae> is the distinction between sang and psi vampires the only possible one?I have rather severe vampiric traits myself,of the energetic variety,but I can produce and store energy just fine,but my own energy won't keep my 'system'running,and long-term it becomes almost poisonous to me,neccesitating that I cut off most of my own energy production and go into what I can suppose be best termed dwindling physical and metaphysical metabolism with
[21:38] <WingedWolf> It's 3:30 AM where he is now.
[21:38] <G2_Wolf> ah
[21:38] <Felidae> the usual tendencies towards sickness and such
[21:38] <Elliptic> That just sounds like you're processing wrong, and have some stagnation.
[21:38] <WingedWolf> Felidae--I'm sure there are a LOT of things out there that haven't been documented by anyone.
[21:39] <WingedWolf> There may be a known explanation for what you're experiencing, or it might be something new. But I would not call anyone a vampire who did not have a need to take energy from others.
[21:41] <WingedWolf> Any other questions I might have missed? :)
[21:41] Sephiroth [~nckhalo@*.houston.res.rr.com] has joined #Guild_Meetings
[21:41] WingedWolf sets mode: +v Sephiroth
[21:41] Lucianus thinks
[21:41] <Felidae> I'v tried all the processing and getting rid of stagnation tricks I can think of,the need to drain doesn't abate though it does help somewhat...at best i'd say 15%(and 89% of statistics are made up on the spot,including this one,but as a general estimate)
[21:41] <Felidae> hi Sephiroth
[21:42] Sephiroth sighs
[21:42] <Sephiroth> Greetings Fel
[21:42] <G2_Wolf> grounding occasionally might help i guess?
[21:42] <G2_Wolf> not 89%
[21:42] WingedWolf glares at G2.
[21:42] <Elliptic> I'm sure I'll have more questions later, but there's no need to stay "in session" for that.
[21:42] <Elliptic> Fel, I'll take a look later if you'd like?
[21:42] <G2_Wolf> what?
[21:42] <G2_Wolf> did i do something wrong?
[21:42] <WingedWolf> You're not going to start arguing about statistics.
[21:43] <Felidae> sure,I would apreciate that
[21:43] <G2_Wolf> no..

sphynxcatvp
04-29-2006, 06:46 AM

<WingedWolf> While sanguinarians are nocturnal, the majority are forced to work days, and are awake during the day just like everyone else.
And we are just NOT morning people.... :)

In addition to the heightened night vision, a majority of sang vampires also report heightening of other senses, though not always all of them, or the same ones. Hearing and sense of smell are mentioned most often.
These senses can still be damaged by mundane causes, such as losing all or part of one's sense of smell from a sinus infection. It may start off at high levels, by may not always stay that way. Just FYI.

<Elliptic> A genetic basis would indicate that it would be present immediately, as there seems to be some kind of biological requirement for blood and such...
Not necessarily. People don't develop...what is it, "secondary" sexual characteristics or something?...(body hair, boobs, etc.) until puberty, so there's at least that biological precedent.
It still may be obvious (male vs. female) in many cases, but not necessarily creating biological imperatives. :)

<Haibane> I still say they sound like gu'auld >.>

"Junior" *snerkles*

<WingedWolf> It should be noted that vampires in general have made an effort to take pride in being what they are.
Not necessarily "vamp pride" as much as "it's not the end of the world just because you're a bit freakier than most people".

At least that's what *I* try to promote. I'm a horribly practical person, and feel it's a waste of time to go through the "woe is me" act when whining about it isn't productive. :)

<Elliptic> Provided that, at least in a limited number of circumstances, vampirism can be "cured," why is it that such a large number in the community expresses depression and agony over their status, yet, and it may have been a specific circumstance with me, so I'm unsure, they often react hostily to offers of assistance?
Here's some possibilities:

* Some just want to whine for attention. :P

* Some are just resistant to change, but don't know how to deal with what they're going through. (i.e., you *might* be able to talk them into a cure, eventually, but no guarantees)

* Some find the symbiont thing too unbelievable, and resent the implication that their condition is caused by some astral space whatever-the-fsk. *shrugs*

Then you get folks like me who don't see it as a negative condition, and resent the implication that "it has to be cured" when there's no significantly bad life impact on self or others.

<WingedWolf> Turbo--blood rage, though it's known by a few other names in the vamp community, is a state of powerful craving and obsession.
Can also be called "vamping out" but I'm not real happy with either term...I just don't know anything better.

<Elliptic> Ah, I see. I suppose one of my questions here might be why there is a preponderance of depressive or "dark" behaviors in vampire communities? I see a large overlap between vampire and goth communities...which tends to be quite depressive in nature, and a lot of "woe am I" type gibberish, followed by an unwillingness to attempt change...
That depends on the segment of the goth community you're talking about. :) Those of us (yes, I do consider myself a goth, but not like the babygoth teens on goth sites) who are older (30's and up) are more tolerant of other people's quirks, and don't necessarily see it as "depressive" or "negative"... intense, perhaps, definitely less fluffy-bunny, but not negative. We've been around the employment world a few times, we see that there are More Important Things than office politics, and want to read, learn and/or do stuff that's just more INTERESTING.

<WingedWolf> However, the association of vampires with the goth culture is encouraged by neither. Vampires who are goth are likely now to point out that they are not goth BECAUSE they are vampires, nor are goths vampiric.
Exactly. :) There's a lot of overlap because (older) goths are more tolerant of other people's quirks and oddities, and are willing to see the person/brain behind the mask.

Turbo fails to see how 'vampire' can be romantic
"Take me away from all this death", to quote a movie...

<WingedWolf> No, depression is generally associated with lack of feeding.
Could also be bad nutrition or genuine chemical imbalances in the brain. Depression is not limited to vampires - there's just a lower population of vampires than nonvampires, and it attracts a lot of the depressed angsty teens.

<Elliptic> Fair enough, and there's no doubt very specific definitions of things...but I see vampiric communities typically as having the same identifying features as a goth community. They tend to be dark, dismal, and depressive.
FWIW, I see a lot of the "dark, dismal and depressive" among the teen-goths, not as often among the older ones. whether you want to chalk that up to diet, environment or whatever is up to you. :)

<WingedWolf> Donors are more likely to be sexually motivated...
One of my complaints is that some donors think that "feeding the vamp" = "chance to get laid" - As WW said, not all vamps equate feeding with sex, and some vamps will not have sex with their donors, for whatever reason (monogamous relationship, personal views, etc.)

<Elliptic> That's well and good, but this seems to be a rare enough occurence...I think the communities are fringe enough for there to be no public persecution.
Tell that to the gay communities, who've been open for a lot longer. :P

<Elliptic> Protection isn't the issue. The court process is too arduous for me to see this as a place where CPS would step in.
When potential bloodletting is involved, most authorities that would be involved are concerned about the possibility of murder or other harm. It would not surprise me to find CPS pursuing cases like this where they might not otherwise do so.

<Elliptic> I have seen children remain in abusive homes where the child was regularly injured deliberately by the parent simply because the expense of removing the child was too much.
Some CPS staff feel the only appropriate home for children is with their natural parents or relatives. This is where the system breaks, for exactly the reason you just mentioned - the natural family is NOT always the ideal situation.

<Elliptic> This leads me around again...if the persecution is so great...why is it that there are people willing to voluntarily enter into it, and people remain in it despite an option?
Some people are attracted by what they consider "forbidden fruits" - tell most children they can't have something, and watch them whine for it. :)

<WingedWolf> At this time, the Sanguinarian community PUBLICALLY denies that it is possible for someone to be turned into a sang vamp.
We get enough morons wanting to be "turned" that obviously have no clue what they're asking for ALREADY...

<G2_Wolf> it's fun to go in to a vampire chat and say you had a nice juicy steak earlier for dinner
If you're doing that just to piss them off, then you're a troll. :P

<Elliptic> I have a high one in my position, I mean. I guess I'm indirectly hinting at wondering how many more vampires you're going to bring by here?
I missed the chat, otherwise you would have seen me there tonight....er, last night by now. :)

G2_Wolf
04-29-2006, 08:40 PM

<G2_Wolf> it's fun to go in to a vampire chat and say you had a nice juicy steak earlier for dinner
If you're doing that just to piss them off, then you're a troll. :P


It was only once :oops: .... and that was a good steak i had that day too....
:D ... I made sure no was was vamping out or in any need when I said it though....

Ramza
04-30-2006, 06:58 AM

There are just a couple of areas I would like to comment on.

1. The reason vampires choose to stay vampires in spite of persecution.

Vampires probably feel that society really should accept them (and I agree). I think the movie X-men 2 said it best, when Mystique is asked why she doesn't stay in human form all the time she says "because I shouldn't have to," or something like that.

2. People losing there jobs/children/lives/etc. when they are "discovered" as vampires.

A lot of this probably depends on where they live. Like Elliptic said, parents have kept their children in spite of things much worse then the relatively harmless vampirism, so it's not a matter of how bad the crime is so much as the belief of the judge/the general belief of people in the area.
In a liberal or open minded conservative society, the judge may be willing to find out just what vampirism actually entails before making an unfair ruling. In a closed minded society, the moment the judge even hears the word "vampire" s/he might say "OMG is teh spawn of Satan" and his/her judgment may be influenced dramatically by this unfair first impression.

sphynxcatvp
04-30-2006, 04:15 PM

I think the movie X-men 2 said it best, when Mystique is asked why she doesn't stay in human form all the time she says "because I shouldn't have to," or something like that.
I do *love* the X-men... *grins* IMO the good guys are all positive role models - they're different (in some cases VERY different) but they're able to work with what they have, learn how to control it, and put it to good use. Or at least not make a complete idiot of themselves in the process. :)